From rainbird at skymesh.com.au Wed Feb 4 09:38:06 2009 From: rainbird at skymesh.com.au (Jo Lewis) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 09:38:06 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] Another project? Message-ID: <3F29B0CB-A335-4303-9F5E-634ABF36EF2C@skymesh.com.au> Hello all At the Climate Action Summit last weekend I was reminded about the distributed power that has been developed in Woking - a town in England where I lived for a while. It has all happened since I lived there of course but it was suggested at the climate summit that it could be a way forward in our efforts to cut our use of coal-fired power. Clean Energy for Eternity are looking at developing community owned power in Bega so maybe we should put some energy into supporting their efforts and encouraging diversified generation as in Woking. The Guardian article below gives an outline of the scheme. http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2004/jan/26/energy.renewableenergy We could also use it in the possible directions for future developments when we speak with other groups in our area Jo Jo Lewis rainbird at skymesh.com.au 0412 234 521 02 4473 7927 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090204/bc3911e6/attachment.htm From rainbird at skymesh.com.au Mon Feb 9 15:12:18 2009 From: rainbird at skymesh.com.au (Jo Lewis) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 15:12:18 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] Next meeting Message-ID: <5547F66D-96B4-4FC5-BFE8-FCA35ED1AE62@skymesh.com.au> Hi everyone Just a reminder that the next TTTPlus meeting will be at the Pink House, 8279 Princes Highway Central Tilba as usual at 2.30 on Wednesday 11th February. Item to be discussed: Support for the Dalmeny bike path and cycle festival Tilba Festival Cobargo Folk Festival Roster for the TTTPlus table at the Tilba market & donation for the Growers Market banner Bookings for TTTPlus Presentations Donations $2/meeting to Anne & Peter to cover items used at meetings & tea coffee etc Preparing the TTTPlus EDAP (energy descent action plan) Electricity as a project to encourage local population to sign up for green power or local power station Hope to see you at the Pink House on Wednesday Jo Jo Lewis rainbird at skymesh.com.au -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090209/c088e327/attachment.htm From relax at greengables.com.au Mon Feb 9 16:08:00 2009 From: relax at greengables.com.au (Green Gables) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 16:08:00 +1100 (EST) Subject: [tttplus] Next meeting In-Reply-To: <5547F66D-96B4-4FC5-BFE8-FCA35ED1AE62@skymesh.com.au> References: <5547F66D-96B4-4FC5-BFE8-FCA35ED1AE62@skymesh.com.au> Message-ID: <37086.116.240.168.22.1234156080.squirrel@webmail.ilisys.com.au> Thanks, Jo - I will be an apology, Stuart > Hi everyone > Just a reminder that the next TTTPlus meeting will be at the Pink > House, 8279 Princes Highway Central Tilba as usual at 2.30 on > Wednesday 11th February. > Item to be discussed: > > Support for the Dalmeny bike path and cycle festival > Tilba Festival > Cobargo Folk Festival > Roster for the TTTPlus table at the Tilba market & donation for the > Growers Market banner > Bookings for TTTPlus Presentations > Donations $2/meeting to Anne & Peter to cover items used at meetings > & tea coffee etc > Preparing the TTTPlus EDAP (energy descent action plan) > Electricity as a project to encourage local population to sign up for > green power or local power station > > Hope to see you at the Pink House on Wednesday > Jo > > Jo Lewis > rainbird at skymesh.com.au > > > _______________________________________________ > tttplus mailing list > tttplus at austcom.org.au > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus > From angeyoung at bigpond.com Mon Feb 9 17:11:33 2009 From: angeyoung at bigpond.com (Angela Young) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 17:11:33 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] Another project? In-Reply-To: <3F29B0CB-A335-4303-9F5E-634ABF36EF2C@skymesh.com.au> References: <3F29B0CB-A335-4303-9F5E-634ABF36EF2C@skymesh.com.au> Message-ID: <9122A5A2-2377-43E7-8F15-1FA31DCA1C60@bigpond.com> Thanks Jo, very interesting, Angela On 04/02/2009, at 9:38 AM, Jo Lewis wrote: > Hello all > At the Climate Action Summit last weekend I was reminded about the > distributed power that has been developed in Woking - a town in > England where I lived for a while. It has all happened since I lived > there of course but it was suggested at the climate summit that it > could be a way forward in our efforts to cut our use of coal-fired > power. Clean Energy for Eternity are looking at developing community > owned power in Bega so maybe we should put some energy into > supporting their efforts and encouraging diversified generation as > in Woking. The Guardian article below gives an outline of the scheme. > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2004/jan/26/energy.renewableenergy > > We could also use it in the possible directions for future > developments when we speak with other groups in our area > Jo > > Jo Lewis > rainbird at skymesh.com.au > 0412 234 521 > 02 4473 7927 > > > > _______________________________________________ > tttplus mailing list > tttplus at austcom.org.au > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090209/1393ae7c/attachment.htm From wells.carolyn at gmail.com Mon Feb 9 18:59:06 2009 From: wells.carolyn at gmail.com (Carolyn Wells) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 18:59:06 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] Next meeting In-Reply-To: <37086.116.240.168.22.1234156080.squirrel@webmail.ilisys.com.au> References: <5547F66D-96B4-4FC5-BFE8-FCA35ED1AE62@skymesh.com.au> <37086.116.240.168.22.1234156080.squirrel@webmail.ilisys.com.au> Message-ID: Hi everyone I've attached some notes on Energy Descent Action Plans (what they are and strategies for getting started) along with some web sites. Carolyn On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 4:08 PM, Green Gables wrote: > Thanks, Jo - I will be an apology, Stuart > > > Hi everyone > > Just a reminder that the next TTTPlus meeting will be at the Pink > > House, 8279 Princes Highway Central Tilba as usual at 2.30 on > > Wednesday 11th February. > > Item to be discussed: > > > > Support for the Dalmeny bike path and cycle festival > > Tilba Festival > > Cobargo Folk Festival > > Roster for the TTTPlus table at the Tilba market & donation for the > > Growers Market banner > > Bookings for TTTPlus Presentations > > Donations $2/meeting to Anne & Peter to cover items used at meetings > > & tea coffee etc > > Preparing the TTTPlus EDAP (energy descent action plan) > > Electricity as a project to encourage local population to sign up for > > green power or local power station > > > > Hope to see you at the Pink House on Wednesday > > Jo > > > > Jo Lewis > > rainbird at skymesh.com.au > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tttplus mailing list > > tttplus at austcom.org.au > > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus > > > > _______________________________________________ > tttplus mailing list > tttplus at austcom.org.au > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090209/4b46c2ca/attachment-0001.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: EDAP Notes.doc Type: application/msword Size: 32256 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090209/4b46c2ca/attachment-0001.doc From rainbird at skymesh.com.au Tue Feb 10 09:40:16 2009 From: rainbird at skymesh.com.au (Jo Lewis) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 09:40:16 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] Fwd: [greenleap] Fires, the deadly inevitability of climate change References: <499031CB.28510.2C72A78@Philip.Sutton.green-innovations.asn.au> Message-ID: <109F1133-FA25-4197-889C-EC5C91D72F9E@skymesh.com.au> Thanks perhaps to the world wide economic crisis it looks like climate change is not only going to be a bigger problem than peak oil but it may actually hit harder and hit first. Jo Lewis rainbird at skymesh.com.au Begin forwarded message: > From: "Philip Sutton" > Date: 10 February 2009 12:38:19 AM > To: greenleap at yahoogroups.com > Subject: [greenleap] Fires, the deadly inevitability of climate change > > http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/fires-the-deadly-inevitability-of- > climate-change-20090209-8289.html?page=-1 > or click here > > Fires the deadly inevitability of climate change > Freya Mathews > The Age > February 10, 2009 > > The disaster challenges the Government to accept evident truths. > > IT IS only a couple of years since scientists first told us we > could expect a whole new order of fires in south-eastern Australia, > fires of such ferocity they would simply engulf the towns in their > path. And here they are. > > The fires we saw on Saturday were not "once in a thousand years" or > even "once in a hundred years" events, as our political leaders > keep repeating. They were the face of climate change in our part of > the world. > > These fires are simply the result of the new conditions that > climate change has introduced here: raised temperatures, giving us > hotter days than we have ever experienced before combined with > lower rainfall giving us a drier landscape. Let's stop using the > word "drought", with its implication that dry weather is the > exception. The desiccation of the landscape here is the new > reality. It is now our climate. > > Perhaps we can adapt to this new climate by completely rethinking > and reprioritising our fire defence. > > But can we adapt to it if it gets worse? It was only by chance that > a cool change came through on Saturday. What if the pattern of the > heatwave that occurred in the last week of January had been > repeated? If instead of the cool change on Saturday evening we had > had three or four days of above 40 degree temperatures? How much of > our state, how many of our towns and outer suburbs, would have been > engulfed? > > People are comparing last Saturday to Ash Wednesday and Black Friday. > > But this misses the point. We should be comparing these fires to > the vast and devastating fires of 2002-03, which swept through 2 > million hectares of forest in the south-east and raged > uncontrollably for weeks. > > They have been quickly forgotten because, being mainly in parks, > they did not involve major loss of human life or property. > > But it is to this fire regime, the new fire regime of climate > change, rather than to the regimes of 1983 or 1939, that the > present fires belong. > > Saturday showed us the terrifying and desolating face of climate > change. > > The heat was devastating in its effects even without the fire. > > In the fruit bat colony at Bellbird on the Yarra, hundreds of bats > died as they had during the heat wave a week earlier. > > Wildlife carers reported many incidents of heat stress and death > among native animals generally. > > This means, of course, that out in the bush, unreported, vast > numbers of animals were suffering. > > We can all see the trees and other plants dying in our gardens and > parks. Our local fauna and flora are not adapted to these extremes. > > With wildfire, this heat death becomes a holocaust, for people and > for animals and plants. Yet we are only halfway through summer. How > many more lethal episodes of extreme heat will we have to endure in > the coming weeks, let alone the coming years? > > Meanwhile, the Federal Government is wondering how to inject > stimulus money into the economy, how to get rid of the surplus > accumulated over years of boom times. > > It is planning simply to give much of it away, as hand-outs. It has > made the usual little token allocations to climate change > mitigation, allocations that will in no way deflect the coming > holocaust. > > The Prime Minister weeps on television at the tragedy of Saturday's > events. He looks around uncomprehendingly, unable to find words, > unable to find meaning. > > But there are words. There is meaning. This is climate change. This > is what the scientists told us would happen. All the climatic > events of the past 10 years have been leading inexorably to this. > > Yet this is just the beginning, the beginning of something that > will truly, if unaddressed, overwhelm us. > > As the events of Saturday showed, the consequences of climate > change will make the financial crisis look like a garden party. > > But there is a synchronicity here that must not be missed. The > extraordinary economic measures for which the financial crisis is > calling provide a perfect opportunity to fund the energy revolution > for which the crisis of climate change is calling. > > If the Government does not seize this opportunity, if it persists > in its self-serving refusal to name the truths of climate change, > then the terrifying world into which we were plunged, momentarily, > on Saturday, will become the world that we will have to inhabit. > > Freya Mathews is a research fellow in the philosophy department at > La Trobe University. > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090210/e576c3e3/attachment.htm From gary at spiritude.net Tue Feb 10 14:13:27 2009 From: gary at spiritude.net (Gary Hooley) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 14:13:27 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] Fwd: [greenleap] Fires, the deadly inevitability of climate change - Economic&Climate synchronisity. In-Reply-To: <109F1133-FA25-4197-889C-EC5C91D72F9E@skymesh.com.au> References: <499031CB.28510.2C72A78@Philip.Sutton.green-innovations.asn.au> <109F1133-FA25-4197-889C-EC5C91D72F9E@skymesh.com.au> Message-ID: <1234235607.6883.19.camel@gary-laptop-UB2> >From my view that is because the environment and climate are real, natural systems, demanding our attention, whereas the economic system is an artificial, man-made system to facilitate or control beneficial trade. The latter is obviously not serving its purpose, so we need to develop a new system. As the article below suggests, now is a great opportunity to develop a new economic system that values our natural environment more highly, and encourages us to use its resources more sustainably. Forget about trying to pay-off old 'paper' or digital debts with more resources and human energy. As the old saying goes "Don't throw good money after bad". Gary H. On Tue, 2009-02-10 at 09:40 +1100, Jo Lewis wrote: > Thanks perhaps to the world wide economic crisis it looks like climate > change is not only going to be a bigger problem than peak oil but it > may actually hit harder and hit first. > > Jo Lewis > rainbird at skymesh.com.au > > > > > > > > > Begin forwarded message: > > > > > From: "Philip Sutton" > > Date: 10 February 2009 12:38:19 AM > > To: greenleap at yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [greenleap] Fires, the deadly inevitability of climate > > change > > > > > > http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/fires-the-deadly-inevitability-of-climate-change-20090209-8289.html?page=-1 > > or click here > > > > > > Fires the deadly inevitability of climate change > > Freya Mathews > > The Age > > February 10, 2009 > > > > > > The disaster challenges the Government to accept evident truths. > > > > > > IT IS only a couple of years since scientists first told us we could > > expect a whole new order of fires in south-eastern Australia, fires > > of such ferocity they would simply engulf the towns in their path. > > And here they are. > > > > > > The fires we saw on Saturday were not "once in a thousand years" or > > even "once in a hundred years" events, as our political leaders keep > > repeating. They were the face of climate change in our part of the > > world. > > > > > > These fires are simply the result of the new conditions that climate > > change has introduced here: raised temperatures, giving us hotter > > days than we have ever experienced before combined with lower > > rainfall giving us a drier landscape. Let's stop using the word > > "drought", with its implication that dry weather is the exception. > > The desiccation of the landscape here is the new reality. It is now > > our climate. > > > > > > Perhaps we can adapt to this new climate by completely rethinking > > and reprioritising our fire defence. > > > > > > But can we adapt to it if it gets worse? It was only by chance that > > a cool change came through on Saturday. What if the pattern of the > > heatwave that occurred in the last week of January had been > > repeated? If instead of the cool change on Saturday evening we had > > had three or four days of above 40 degree temperatures? How much of > > our state, how many of our towns and outer suburbs, would have been > > engulfed? > > > > > > People are comparing last Saturday to Ash Wednesday and Black > > Friday. > > > > > > But this misses the point. We should be comparing these fires to the > > vast and devastating fires of 2002-03, which swept through 2 million > > hectares of forest in the south-east and raged uncontrollably for > > weeks. > > > > > > They have been quickly forgotten because, being mainly in parks, > > they did not involve major loss of human life or property. > > > > > > But it is to this fire regime, the new fire regime of climate > > change, rather than to the regimes of 1983 or 1939, that the present > > fires belong. > > > > > > Saturday showed us the terrifying and desolating face of climate > > change. > > > > > > The heat was devastating in its effects even without the fire. > > > > > > In the fruit bat colony at Bellbird on the Yarra, hundreds of bats > > died as they had during the heat wave a week earlier. > > > > > > Wildlife carers reported many incidents of heat stress and death > > among native animals generally. > > > > > > This means, of course, that out in the bush, unreported, vast > > numbers of animals were suffering. > > > > > > We can all see the trees and other plants dying in our gardens and > > parks. Our local fauna and flora are not adapted to these extremes. > > > > > > With wildfire, this heat death becomes a holocaust, for people and > > for animals and plants. Yet we are only halfway through summer. How > > many more lethal episodes of extreme heat will we have to endure in > > the coming weeks, let alone the coming years? > > > > > > Meanwhile, the Federal Government is wondering how to inject > > stimulus money into the economy, how to get rid of the surplus > > accumulated over years of boom times. > > > > > > It is planning simply to give much of it away, as hand-outs. It has > > made the usual little token allocations to climate change > > mitigation, allocations that will in no way deflect the coming > > holocaust. > > > > > > The Prime Minister weeps on television at the tragedy of Saturday's > > events. He looks around uncomprehendingly, unable to find words, > > unable to find meaning. > > > > > > But there are words. There is meaning. This is climate change. This > > is what the scientists told us would happen. All the climatic events > > of the past 10 years have been leading inexorably to this. > > > > > > Yet this is just the beginning, the beginning of something that will > > truly, if unaddressed, overwhelm us. > > > > > > As the events of Saturday showed, the consequences of climate change > > will make the financial crisis look like a garden party. > > > > > > But there is a synchronicity here that must not be missed. The > > extraordinary economic measures for which the financial crisis is > > calling provide a perfect opportunity to fund the energy revolution > > for which the crisis of climate change is calling. > > > > > > If the Government does not seize this opportunity, if it persists in > > its self-serving refusal to name the truths of climate change, then > > the terrifying world into which we were plunged, momentarily, on > > Saturday, will become the world that we will have to inhabit. > > > > > > Freya Mathews is a research fellow in the philosophy department at > > La Trobe University. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > tttplus mailing list > tttplus at austcom.org.au > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090210/a1f70970/attachment.htm From gary at spiritude.net Tue Feb 17 00:35:46 2009 From: gary at spiritude.net (Gary Hooley) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:35:46 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] [Fwd: New subscription request to list tttplus from lbuidk@bqexre.com] Message-ID: <1234791346.8753.90.camel@gary-laptop-UB2> Does anyone know who "lbuidk" from email address below, may be? The owner has requested via our website, to be added to the TTTPlus Mailing List. I would prefer to know the person had a legitimate cause, before approving the request. RSVP, Gary Hooley -------- Forwarded Message -------- > From: tttplus-owner at austcom.org.au > To: tttplus-owner at austcom.org.au > Subject: New subscription request to list tttplus from > lbuidk at bqexre.com > Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:02:38 +1100 > > > Your authorization is required for a mailing list subscription request > approval: > > For: lbuidk at bqexre.com > List: tttplus at austcom.org.au > > At your convenience, visit: > > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/admindb/tttplus > > to process the request. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090217/40a7ea54/attachment.htm From dol62834 at bigpond.net.au Tue Feb 17 08:56:52 2009 From: dol62834 at bigpond.net.au (David Oliphant) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 08:56:52 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] [Fwd: New subscription request to list tttplus from lbuidk@bqexre.com] In-Reply-To: <1234791346.8753.90.camel@gary-laptop-UB2> References: <1234791346.8753.90.camel@gary-laptop-UB2> Message-ID: <7FDF8E29-87FB-4A61-9DAD-C969A2EE04C0@bigpond.net.au> I don't know this person Gary David O On 17/02/2009, at 12:35 AM, Gary Hooley wrote: > Does anyone know who "lbuidk" from email address below, may be? > > The owner has requested via our website, to be added to the TTTPlus > Mailing List. > > I would prefer to know the person had a legitimate cause, before > approving the request. > > RSVP, > > Gary Hooley > > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- >> From: tttplus-owner at austcom.org.au >> To: tttplus-owner at austcom.org.au >> Subject: New subscription request to list tttplus from lbuidk at bqexre.com >> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:02:38 +1100 >> >> Your authorization is required for a mailing list subscription >> request >> approval: >> >> For: lbuidk at bqexre.com >> List: tttplus at austcom.org.au >> >> At your convenience, visit: >> >> http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/admindb/tttplus >> >> to process the request. >> > _______________________________________________ > tttplus mailing list > tttplus at austcom.org.au > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090217/58f2cb36/attachment.htm From asmarshall11 at gmail.com Tue Feb 17 15:42:19 2009 From: asmarshall11 at gmail.com (Angela Marshall) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 15:42:19 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] [Fwd: New subscription request to list tttplus from lbuidk@bqexre.com] In-Reply-To: <7FDF8E29-87FB-4A61-9DAD-C969A2EE04C0@bigpond.net.au> References: <1234791346.8753.90.camel@gary-laptop-UB2> <7FDF8E29-87FB-4A61-9DAD-C969A2EE04C0@bigpond.net.au> Message-ID: <3e597ad10902162042g4977d69buc6cc6062bd1771e4@mail.gmail.com> I don't recognise the email address either... Angela On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 8:56 AM, David Oliphant wrote: > I don't know this person Gary David O > On 17/02/2009, at 12:35 AM, Gary Hooley wrote: > > Does anyone know who "lbuidk" from email address below, may be? > > The owner has requested via our website, to be added to the TTTPlus Mailing > List. > > I would prefer to know the person had a legitimate cause, before approving > the request. > > RSVP, > > Gary Hooley > > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > > *From*: tttplus-owner at austcom.org.au > *To*: tttplus-owner at austcom.org.au > *Subject*: New subscription request to list tttplus from lbuidk at bqexre.com > *Date*: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:02:38 +1100 > > Your authorization is required for a mailing list subscription request > approval: > > For: lbuidk at bqexre.com > List: tttplus at austcom.org.au > > At your convenience, visit: > > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/admindb/tttplus > > to process the request. > > > _______________________________________________ > tttplus mailing list > tttplus at austcom.org.au > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus > > > > _______________________________________________ > tttplus mailing list > tttplus at austcom.org.au > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090217/44c21722/attachment.htm From peteranne at bordernet.com.au Tue Feb 17 19:24:43 2009 From: peteranne at bordernet.com.au (Peter and Anne) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 19:24:43 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] [Fwd: New subscription request to list tttplusfrom lbuidk@bqexre.com] References: <1234791346.8753.90.camel@gary-laptop-UB2> Message-ID: No Peter and Anne ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Hooley To: The Triangle Plus Transition Towns Mailing List Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 12:35 AM Subject: [tttplus] [Fwd: New subscription request to list tttplusfrom lbuidk at bqexre.com] Does anyone know who "lbuidk" from email address below, may be? The owner has requested via our website, to be added to the TTTPlus Mailing List. I would prefer to know the person had a legitimate cause, before approving the request. RSVP, Gary Hooley -------- Forwarded Message -------- From: tttplus-owner at austcom.org.au To: tttplus-owner at austcom.org.au Subject: New subscription request to list tttplus from lbuidk at bqexre.com Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:02:38 +1100 Your authorization is required for a mailing list subscription request approval: For: lbuidk at bqexre.com List: tttplus at austcom.org.au At your convenience, visit: http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/admindb/tttplus to process the request. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ tttplus mailing list tttplus at austcom.org.au http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090217/5218bd4b/attachment.htm From wells.carolyn at gmail.com Tue Feb 17 20:57:57 2009 From: wells.carolyn at gmail.com (Carolyn Wells) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 20:57:57 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] [Fwd: New subscription request to list tttplusfrom lbuidk@bqexre.com] In-Reply-To: References: <1234791346.8753.90.camel@gary-laptop-UB2> Message-ID: Not known to me Carolyn On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 7:24 PM, Peter and Anne wrote: > No > Peter and Anne > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Gary Hooley > *To:* The Triangle Plus Transition Towns Mailing List > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 17, 2009 12:35 AM > *Subject:* [tttplus] [Fwd: New subscription request to list tttplusfrom > lbuidk at bqexre.com] > > Does anyone know who "lbuidk" from email address below, may be? > > The owner has requested via our website, to be added to the TTTPlus Mailing > List. > > I would prefer to know the person had a legitimate cause, before approving > the request. > > RSVP, > > Gary Hooley > > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > > *From*: tttplus-owner at austcom.org.au > *To*: tttplus-owner at austcom.org.au > *Subject*: New subscription request to list tttplus from lbuidk at bqexre.com > *Date*: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:02:38 +1100 > > Your authorization is required for a mailing list subscription request > approval: > > For: lbuidk at bqexre.com > List: tttplus at austcom.org.au > > At your convenience, visit: > > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/admindb/tttplus > > to process the request. > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > tttplus mailing list > tttplus at austcom.org.au > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus > > > _______________________________________________ > tttplus mailing list > tttplus at austcom.org.au > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090217/320afb88/attachment.htm From rainbird at skymesh.com.au Tue Feb 17 21:01:29 2009 From: rainbird at skymesh.com.au (Jo Lewis) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 21:01:29 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] Submission re: draft renewable energy amendment bill Message-ID: <4E61BB52-6A75-47F9-BD97-E2A1268CF46F@skymesh.com.au> ? Australian Climate Action Groups have put together a submission to Government on renewable energy and they would like as many Australian Climate Groups as possible to sign on to it. The submission is based on the outcomes of the summit in Canberra. TTTPllus qualifies as a climate action group and I would like to see us endorse this submission. If anyone objects to this could they please let me know before Friday by email or phone message. Sorry about the short notice Jo Jo Lewis rainbird at skymesh.com.au 0412 234 521 02 4473 7927 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090217/e9e6dfb7/attachment-0002.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 09-02-17 Submission on Renewable Energy Amendment.doc Type: application/octet-stream Size: 110080 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090217/e9e6dfb7/attachment-0001.obj -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090217/e9e6dfb7/attachment-0003.htm From wells.carolyn at gmail.com Tue Feb 17 22:34:28 2009 From: wells.carolyn at gmail.com (Carolyn Wells) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 22:34:28 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] Submission re: draft renewable energy amendment bill In-Reply-To: <4E61BB52-6A75-47F9-BD97-E2A1268CF46F@skymesh.com.au> References: <4E61BB52-6A75-47F9-BD97-E2A1268CF46F@skymesh.com.au> Message-ID: Hi Jo The submission seems good to me (but I'm no expert). I agree that we should sign up. Carolyn On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 9:01 PM, Jo Lewis wrote: > > > Australian Climate Action Groups have put together a submission to > Government on renewable energy and they would like as many Australian > Climate Groups as possible to sign on to it. The submission is based on the > outcomes of the summit in Canberra. > TTTPllus qualifies as a climate action group and I would like to see us > endorse this submission. If anyone objects to this could they please let me > know before Friday by email or phone message. Sorry about the short notice > Jo > > > Jo Lewis > rainbird at skymesh.com.au > 0412 234 521 > 02 4473 7927 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > tttplus mailing list > tttplus at austcom.org.au > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090217/01c148b2/attachment.htm From asmarshall11 at gmail.com Tue Feb 17 23:09:50 2009 From: asmarshall11 at gmail.com (Angela Marshall) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 23:09:50 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] Submission re: draft renewable energy amendment bill In-Reply-To: <4E61BB52-6A75-47F9-BD97-E2A1268CF46F@skymesh.com.au> References: <4E61BB52-6A75-47F9-BD97-E2A1268CF46F@skymesh.com.au> Message-ID: <3e597ad10902170409u2008be65td06bb265f55b0a26@mail.gmail.com> Dear Jo, I cannot open the attachment (it seems to have corrupted in the transmission and is claiming to be an MPEG file). Could you resend it please? cheers Angela On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 9:01 PM, Jo Lewis wrote: > > > Australian Climate Action Groups have put together a submission to > Government on renewable energy and they would like as many Australian > Climate Groups as possible to sign on to it. The submission is based on the > outcomes of the summit in Canberra. > TTTPllus qualifies as a climate action group and I would like to see us > endorse this submission. If anyone objects to this could they please let me > know before Friday by email or phone message. Sorry about the short notice > Jo > > > Jo Lewis > rainbird at skymesh.com.au > 0412 234 521 > 02 4473 7927 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > tttplus mailing list > tttplus at austcom.org.au > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090217/1055035c/attachment.htm From karibara at bigpond.net.au Wed Feb 18 08:52:44 2009 From: karibara at bigpond.net.au (Dean / Stock) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 08:52:44 +1100 (AUS Eastern Daylight Time) Subject: [tttplus] Submission re: draft renewable energy amendment bill References: <4E61BB52-6A75-47F9-BD97-E2A1268CF46F@skymesh.com.au> Message-ID: <499B31A3.000001.06116@OPTIMA-24538292> Hi Jo My computer tells me that this is a "DAT" extension file. It seems very difficult to find a program to open it. Is it possible to either identify the program or resend using another program? Margaret Stock -------Original Message------- From: Jo Lewis Date: 17/02/2009 9:04:23 PM To: tttplus List Subject: [tttplus] Submission re: draft renewable energy amendment bill Australian Climate Action Groups have put together a submission to Government on renewable energy and they would like as many Australian Climate Groups as possible to sign on to it. The submission is based on the outcomes of the summit in Canberra. TTTPllus qualifies as a climate action group and I would like to see us endorse this submission. If anyone objects to this could they please let me know before Friday by email or phone message. Sorry about the short notice Jo Jo Lewis rainbird at skymesh.com.au 0412 234 521 02 4473 7927 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090218/fda2ffaa/attachment.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 1458 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090218/fda2ffaa/attachment.jpeg From angeyoung at bigpond.com Wed Feb 18 09:13:49 2009 From: angeyoung at bigpond.com (Angela Young) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 09:13:49 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] [Fwd: New subscription request to list tttplus from lbuidk@bqexre.com] In-Reply-To: <3e597ad10902162042g4977d69buc6cc6062bd1771e4@mail.gmail.com> References: <1234791346.8753.90.camel@gary-laptop-UB2> <7FDF8E29-87FB-4A61-9DAD-C969A2EE04C0@bigpond.net.au> <3e597ad10902162042g4977d69buc6cc6062bd1771e4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I don't recognise it , Angela Y On 17/02/2009, at 3:42 PM, Angela Marshall wrote: > I don't recognise the email address either... > Angela > > On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 8:56 AM, David Oliphant > wrote: > I don't know this person Gary David O > On 17/02/2009, at 12:35 AM, Gary Hooley wrote: > >> Does anyone know who "lbuidk" from email address below, may be? >> >> The owner has requested via our website, to be added to the TTTPlus >> Mailing List. >> >> I would prefer to know the person had a legitimate cause, before >> approving the request. >> >> RSVP, >> >> Gary Hooley >> >> >> -------- Forwarded Message -------- >>> From: tttplus-owner at austcom.org.au >>> To: tttplus-owner at austcom.org.au >>> Subject: New subscription request to list tttplus from lbuidk at bqexre.com >>> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:02:38 +1100 >>> >>> Your authorization is required for a mailing list subscription >>> request >>> approval: >>> >>> For: lbuidk at bqexre.com >>> List: tttplus at austcom.org.au >>> >>> At your convenience, visit: >>> >>> http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/admindb/tttplus >>> >>> to process the request. >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> tttplus mailing list >> tttplus at austcom.org.au >> http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus > > > _______________________________________________ > tttplus mailing list > tttplus at austcom.org.au > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus > > > _______________________________________________ > tttplus mailing list > tttplus at austcom.org.au > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090218/b7d87aad/attachment-0001.htm From wells.carolyn at gmail.com Wed Feb 18 10:26:08 2009 From: wells.carolyn at gmail.com (Carolyn Wells) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 10:26:08 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] Submission re: draft renewable energy amendment bill In-Reply-To: <499B31A3.000001.06116@OPTIMA-24538292> References: <4E61BB52-6A75-47F9-BD97-E2A1268CF46F@skymesh.com.au> <499B31A3.000001.06116@OPTIMA-24538292> Message-ID: I elected to open it in Word which worked. Carolyn On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 8:52 AM, Dean / Stock wrote: > Hi Jo > > My computer tells me that this is a "DAT" extension file. It seems very > difficult to find a program to open it. Is it possible to either identify > the program or resend using another program? > > Margaret Stock > > *-------Original Message-------* > > *From:* Jo Lewis > *Date:* 17/02/2009 9:04:23 PM > *To:* tttplus List > *Subject:* [tttplus] Submission re: draft renewable energy amendment bill > > > Australian Climate Action Groups have put together a submission to > Government on renewable energy and they would like as many Australian > Climate Groups as possible to sign on to it. The submission is based on the > outcomes of the summit in Canberra. > TTTPllus qualifies as a climate action group and I would like to see us > endorse this submission. If anyone objects to this could they please let me > know before Friday by email or phone message. Sorry about the short notice > Jo > > > Jo Lewis > rainbird at skymesh.com.au > 0412 234 521 > 02 4473 7927 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > tttplus mailing list > tttplus at austcom.org.au > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090218/f9299434/attachment.htm From unwind at tilba.com.au Wed Feb 18 10:30:11 2009 From: unwind at tilba.com.au (The Stay at Tintagel) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 10:30:11 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] Submission re: draft renewable energy amendment bill In-Reply-To: <4E61BB52-6A75-47F9-BD97-E2A1268CF46F@skymesh.com.au> References: <4E61BB52-6A75-47F9-BD97-E2A1268CF46F@skymesh.com.au> Message-ID: <004901c99157$b0a07da0$11e178e0$@com.au> Dear Jo, Thanks for the submission. Lots of good ideas. The difficulty will be the political will for such targets. We can only keep trying. Cheers, Peter From: tttplus-bounces at austcom.org.au [mailto:tttplus-bounces at austcom.org.au] On Behalf Of Jo Lewis Sent: Tuesday, 17 February 2009 9:01 PM To: tttplus List Subject: [tttplus] Submission re: draft renewable energy amendment bill -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090218/9ea265bf/attachment.htm From wombathillorganics at redzone.com.au Wed Feb 18 14:55:03 2009 From: wombathillorganics at redzone.com.au (Rod Logan) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 14:55:03 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] climate action groups submission Message-ID: <1234929304.4879.13.camel@localhost> there are a few comments i would like to make on the submission. 100% renewables by 2020 i do not think this is a realistic target. there are many technical & political difficulties to achieve this target. what is wrong with 40% by 2020 ?? is this target also meant to include transport & agriculture or just electricity generation? point 5. time line for renewable energy generation the figures given by 2020 45,000 gigatonnes. should this be gigawatts rather than gigatonnes? the rest of the document looks to be ok rod logan From rainbird at skymesh.com.au Wed Feb 18 15:45:00 2009 From: rainbird at skymesh.com.au (Jo Lewis) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 15:45:00 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] climate action groups submission In-Reply-To: <1234929304.4879.13.camel@localhost> References: <1234929304.4879.13.camel@localhost> Message-ID: Hi Rod The 100% by 2020 was long discussed at the summit but eventually it was adopted - the feeling generally being that the obstacles were more political than technical and that adopting such a high target was a valid position in view of the recent dire projections by climate science. The renewable energy target is for generated power only although it appears that the government may be trying to include solar hot water which should not be counted as it does not generate any power. Jo Jo Lewis rainbird at skymesh.com.au 0412 234 521 02 4473 7927 On 18/02/2009, at 2:55 PM, Rod Logan wrote: > there are a few comments i would like to make on the submission. > > 100% renewables by 2020 > i do not think this is a realistic target. there are many technical & > political difficulties to achieve this target. what is wrong with > 40% by > 2020 ?? > > is this target also meant to include transport & agriculture or just > electricity generation? > > point 5. time line for renewable energy generation > the figures given by 2020 45,000 gigatonnes. should this be gigawatts > rather than gigatonnes? > > the rest of the document looks to be ok > > rod logan > > _______________________________________________ > tttplus mailing list > tttplus at austcom.org.au > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090218/a70e3b44/attachment.htm From asmarshall11 at gmail.com Wed Feb 18 18:15:44 2009 From: asmarshall11 at gmail.com (Angela Marshall) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 18:15:44 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] climate action groups submission In-Reply-To: References: <1234929304.4879.13.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <3e597ad10902172315k78a1a814n1119c990365d7de8@mail.gmail.com> Dear Jo, Thank you for resending the attachment - it had turned into an (unopenable) movie file... I have the same reservations as Rod about the 100% target ? to my mind it is an unrealistic demand (which is not the same as undesirable) and because of this it runs the risk of undermining the submission. Becasue it is such an audacious and optimistic demand the submission reads as an ambit claim rather than a realistic and serious contribution to the debate. I would feel much more comfortable with the CEFE formulation of 50/50 by 2020 ? which is bold but still achievable (both politically and technologically). I certainly do not feel that labelling problems as merely political removes them as obstacles ? in fact the solutions to most of these challenges can never be entirely technological. The political ? at individual, societal and organisational (as in party politics) levels ? has to be central to any serious attempt to address these huge issues. Cheers, Angela On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Jo Lewis wrote: > Hi Rod The 100% by 2020 was long discussed at the summit but eventually it > was adopted - the feeling generally being that the obstacles were more > political than technical and that adopting such a high target was a valid > position in view of the recent dire projections by climate science. The > renewable energy target is for generated power only although it appears that > the government may be trying to include solar hot water which should not be > counted as it does not generate any power. > Jo > > > Jo Lewis > rainbird at skymesh.com.au > 0412 234 521 > 02 4473 7927 > > > > On 18/02/2009, at 2:55 PM, Rod Logan wrote: > > there are a few comments i would like to make on the submission. > > 100% renewables by 2020 > i do not think this is a realistic target. there are many technical & > political difficulties to achieve this target. what is wrong with 40% by > 2020 ?? > > is this target also meant to include transport & agriculture or just > electricity generation? > > point 5. time line for renewable energy generation > the figures given by 2020 45,000 gigatonnes. should this be gigawatts > rather than gigatonnes? > > the rest of the document looks to be ok > > rod logan > > _______________________________________________ > tttplus mailing list > tttplus at austcom.org.au > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus > > > > _______________________________________________ > tttplus mailing list > tttplus at austcom.org.au > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090218/fc9bacbe/attachment.htm From rainbird at skymesh.com.au Wed Feb 18 18:57:31 2009 From: rainbird at skymesh.com.au (Jo Lewis) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 18:57:31 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] climate action groups submission In-Reply-To: <3e597ad10902172315k78a1a814n1119c990365d7de8@mail.gmail.com> References: <1234929304.4879.13.camel@localhost> <3e597ad10902172315k78a1a814n1119c990365d7de8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4EBAF545-B54E-45A2-912D-F86D6CE4BF6A@skymesh.com.au> Hi Angela I really disagree with you on this. The environment movement has been undermined by trying too hard to be reasonable and what has happened is that the extreme views of heavy industry and the coal lobby have essentially written the policies for carbon reduction and renewable energy targets. The situation is so bad now that being reasonable is inviting defeat and while I accept that reaching 100% will be difficult I don't accept that it is impossible (except under current policy settings). I also know that current policy settings support coal fired power and because of that they are almost certainly going to result in runaway global warming. The latest news from the climate scientists is of methane and nitrous oxide leakage from the arctic melt. These are potent greenhouse gases which will further exacerbate global warming. Current climate science indicators are so dire that failure to alter direction is not an option. Jo Jo Lewis rainbird at skymesh.com.au 0412 234 521 02 4473 7927 On 18/02/2009, at 6:15 PM, Angela Marshall wrote: > Dear Jo, > > Thank you for resending the attachment - it had turned into an > (unopenable) movie file... > > I have the same reservations as Rod about the 100% target ? to my > mind it is an unrealistic demand (which is not the same as > undesirable) and because of this it runs the risk of undermining > the submission. Becasue it is such an audacious and optimistic > demand the submission reads as an ambit claim rather than a > realistic and serious contribution to the debate. I would feel much > more comfortable with the CEFE formulation of 50/50 by 2020 ? which > is bold but still achievable (both politically and > technologically). I certainly do not feel that labelling problems > as merely political removes them as obstacles ? in fact the > solutions to most of these challenges can never be entirely > technological. The political ? at individual, societal and > organisational (as in party politics) levels ? has to be central to > any serious attempt to address these huge issues. > > Cheers, > Angela > > On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Jo Lewis > wrote: > Hi Rod > The 100% by 2020 was long discussed at the summit but eventually it > was adopted - the feeling generally being that the obstacles were > more political than technical and that adopting such a high target > was a valid position in view of the recent dire projections by > climate science. The renewable energy target is for generated power > only although it appears that the government may be trying to > include solar hot water which should not be counted as it does not > generate any power. > Jo > > > Jo Lewis > rainbird at skymesh.com.au > 0412 234 521 > 02 4473 7927 > > > > On 18/02/2009, at 2:55 PM, Rod Logan wrote: > >> there are a few comments i would like to make on the submission. >> >> 100% renewables by 2020 >> i do not think this is a realistic target. there are many technical & >> political difficulties to achieve this target. what is wrong with >> 40% by >> 2020 ?? >> >> is this target also meant to include transport & agriculture or just >> electricity generation? >> >> point 5. time line for renewable energy generation >> the figures given by 2020 45,000 gigatonnes. should this be gigawatts >> rather than gigatonnes? >> >> the rest of the document looks to be ok >> >> rod logan >> >> _______________________________________________ >> tttplus mailing list >> tttplus at austcom.org.au >> http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus > > > _______________________________________________ > tttplus mailing list > tttplus at austcom.org.au > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus > > > _______________________________________________ > tttplus mailing list > tttplus at austcom.org.au > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090218/6dc6d7e0/attachment-0001.htm From mountainvalleyvegies at gmail.com Wed Feb 18 21:00:15 2009 From: mountainvalleyvegies at gmail.com (ray buckley) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 21:00:15 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] [Fwd: New subscription request to list tttplus from lbuidk@bqexre.com] In-Reply-To: References: <1234791346.8753.90.camel@gary-laptop-UB2> <7FDF8E29-87FB-4A61-9DAD-C969A2EE04C0@bigpond.net.au> <3e597ad10902162042g4977d69buc6cc6062bd1771e4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I will have to go with consensus Ray On 18/02/2009, Angela Young wrote: > I don't recognise it , Angela Y > On 17/02/2009, at 3:42 PM, Angela Marshall wrote: > >> I don't recognise the email address either... >> Angela >> >> On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 8:56 AM, David Oliphant > > wrote: >> I don't know this person Gary David O >> On 17/02/2009, at 12:35 AM, Gary Hooley wrote: >> >>> Does anyone know who "lbuidk" from email address below, may be? >>> >>> The owner has requested via our website, to be added to the TTTPlus >>> Mailing List. >>> >>> I would prefer to know the person had a legitimate cause, before >>> approving the request. >>> >>> RSVP, >>> >>> Gary Hooley >>> >>> >>> -------- Forwarded Message -------- >>>> From: tttplus-owner at austcom.org.au >>>> To: tttplus-owner at austcom.org.au >>>> Subject: New subscription request to list tttplus from lbuidk at bqexre.com >>>> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:02:38 +1100 >>>> >>>> Your authorization is required for a mailing list subscription >>>> request >>>> approval: >>>> >>>> For: lbuidk at bqexre.com >>>> List: tttplus at austcom.org.au >>>> >>>> At your convenience, visit: >>>> >>>> http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/admindb/tttplus >>>> >>>> to process the request. >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> tttplus mailing list >>> tttplus at austcom.org.au >>> http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> tttplus mailing list >> tttplus at austcom.org.au >> http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> tttplus mailing list >> tttplus at austcom.org.au >> http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus > > From wombathillorganics at redzone.com.au Wed Feb 18 21:48:29 2009 From: wombathillorganics at redzone.com.au (Rod Logan) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 21:48:29 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] climate action groups submission In-Reply-To: <4EBAF545-B54E-45A2-912D-F86D6CE4BF6A@skymesh.com.au> References: <1234929304.4879.13.camel@localhost> <3e597ad10902172315k78a1a814n1119c990365d7de8@mail.gmail.com> <4EBAF545-B54E-45A2-912D-F86D6CE4BF6A@skymesh.com.au> Message-ID: <1234954109.4870.18.camel@localhost> 100% renewables by 2020 does not give much room to negotiate or to justify why this target is necessary. However with 40% by 2020 you are able to use the arguement of the unfccc at the bali conference (that developed countries need to reduce their emissions by this amount) which kevin rudd attended & signed the kyoto protocol. many australian may be concerned about climate change, who do not understand the science & do not appreciate what may be required to get to 100% by 2020. they will need to be engaged & convinced that this is the way to go. its not just the politicians that we need to deal with. rod logan On Wed, 2009-02-18 at 18:57 +1100, Jo Lewis wrote: > Hi Angela > I really disagree with you on this. The environment movement has been > undermined by trying too hard to be reasonable and what has happened > is that the extreme views of heavy industry and the coal lobby have > essentially written the policies for carbon reduction and renewable > energy targets. The situation is so bad now that being reasonable is > inviting defeat and while I accept that reaching 100% will be > difficult I don't accept that it is impossible (except under current > policy settings). I also know that current policy settings support > coal fired power and because of that they are almost certainly going > to result in runaway global warming. The latest news from the climate > scientists is of methane and nitrous oxide leakage from the arctic > melt. These are potent greenhouse gases which will further exacerbate > global warming. > Current climate science indicators are so dire that failure to alter > direction is not an option. > Jo > > > > Jo Lewis > rainbird at skymesh.com.au > 0412 234 521 > 02 4473 7927 > > > > > On 18/02/2009, at 6:15 PM, Angela Marshall wrote: > > > Dear Jo, > > > > Thank you for resending the attachment - it had turned into an > > (unopenable) movie file... > > > > I have the same reservations as Rod about the 100% target ? to my > > mind it is an unrealistic demand (which is not the same as > > undesirable) and because of this it runs the risk of undermining the > > submission. Becasue it is such an audacious and optimistic demand > > the submission reads as an ambit claim rather than a realistic and > > serious contribution to the debate. I would feel much more > > comfortable with the CEFE formulation of 50/50 by 2020 ? which is > > bold but still achievable (both politically and technologically). I > > certainly do not feel that labelling problems as merely political > > removes them as obstacles ? in fact the solutions to most of these > > challenges can never be entirely technological. The political ? at > > individual, societal and organisational (as in party politics) > > levels ? has to be central to any serious attempt to address these > > huge issues. > > > > Cheers, > > Angela > > > > On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Jo Lewis > > wrote: > > Hi Rod > > The 100% by 2020 was long discussed at the summit but > > eventually it was adopted - the feeling generally being that > > the obstacles were more political than technical and that > > adopting such a high target was a valid position in view of > > the recent dire projections by climate science. The > > renewable energy target is for generated power only although > > it appears that the government may be trying to include > > solar hot water which should not be counted as it does not > > generate any power. > > Jo > > > > > > > > Jo Lewis > > rainbird at skymesh.com.au > > 0412 234 521 > > 02 4473 7927 > > > > > > > > > > > > On 18/02/2009, at 2:55 PM, Rod Logan wrote: > > > > > there are a few comments i would like to make on the > > > submission. > > > > > > > > > 100% renewables by 2020 > > > i do not think this is a realistic target. there are many > > > technical & > > > political difficulties to achieve this target. what is > > > wrong with 40% by > > > 2020 ?? > > > > > > > > > is this target also meant to include transport & > > > agriculture or just > > > electricity generation? > > > > > > > > > point 5. time line for renewable energy generation > > > the figures given by 2020 45,000 gigatonnes. should this > > > be gigawatts > > > rather than gigatonnes? > > > > > > > > > the rest of the document looks to be ok > > > > > > > > > rod logan > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > tttplus mailing list > > > tttplus at austcom.org.au > > > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tttplus mailing list > > tttplus at austcom.org.au > > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tttplus mailing list > > tttplus at austcom.org.au > > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus > > > _______________________________________________ > tttplus mailing list > tttplus at austcom.org.au > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus From wells.carolyn at gmail.com Thu Feb 19 08:21:46 2009 From: wells.carolyn at gmail.com (Carolyn Wells) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 08:21:46 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] climate action groups submission In-Reply-To: <1234954109.4870.18.camel@localhost> References: <1234929304.4879.13.camel@localhost> <3e597ad10902172315k78a1a814n1119c990365d7de8@mail.gmail.com> <4EBAF545-B54E-45A2-912D-F86D6CE4BF6A@skymesh.com.au> <1234954109.4870.18.camel@localhost> Message-ID: Rod, Angela If I understand the situation correctly, the submission isn't going to be changed, and we have the option of putting the TTT+ name to it. Are you saying that we should not? I understand your argument, but I also appreciate the position that our society is fiddling (with political sensitivities) while the globe burns. There are large sections of the population who are outraged by the pathetic targets, so why not put in an ambit claim? Carolyn On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 9:48 PM, Rod Logan < wombathillorganics at redzone.com.au> wrote: > 100% renewables by 2020 does not give much room to negotiate or to > justify why this target is necessary. > However with 40% by 2020 you are able to use the arguement of the unfccc > at the bali conference (that developed countries need to reduce their > emissions by this amount) which kevin rudd attended & signed the kyoto > protocol. > many australian may be concerned about climate change, who do not > understand the science & do not appreciate what may be required to get > to 100% by 2020. they will need to be engaged & convinced that this is > the way to go. its not just the politicians that we need to deal with. > rod logan > On Wed, 2009-02-18 at 18:57 +1100, Jo Lewis wrote: > > Hi Angela > > I really disagree with you on this. The environment movement has been > > undermined by trying too hard to be reasonable and what has happened > > is that the extreme views of heavy industry and the coal lobby have > > essentially written the policies for carbon reduction and renewable > > energy targets. The situation is so bad now that being reasonable is > > inviting defeat and while I accept that reaching 100% will be > > difficult I don't accept that it is impossible (except under current > > policy settings). I also know that current policy settings support > > coal fired power and because of that they are almost certainly going > > to result in runaway global warming. The latest news from the climate > > scientists is of methane and nitrous oxide leakage from the arctic > > melt. These are potent greenhouse gases which will further exacerbate > > global warming. > > Current climate science indicators are so dire that failure to alter > > direction is not an option. > > Jo > > > > > > > > Jo Lewis > > rainbird at skymesh.com.au > > 0412 234 521 > > 02 4473 7927 > > > > > > > > > > On 18/02/2009, at 6:15 PM, Angela Marshall wrote: > > > > > Dear Jo, > > > > > > Thank you for resending the attachment - it had turned into an > > > (unopenable) movie file... > > > > > > I have the same reservations as Rod about the 100% target ? to my > > > mind it is an unrealistic demand (which is not the same as > > > undesirable) and because of this it runs the risk of undermining the > > > submission. Becasue it is such an audacious and optimistic demand > > > the submission reads as an ambit claim rather than a realistic and > > > serious contribution to the debate. I would feel much more > > > comfortable with the CEFE formulation of 50/50 by 2020 ? which is > > > bold but still achievable (both politically and technologically). I > > > certainly do not feel that labelling problems as merely political > > > removes them as obstacles ? in fact the solutions to most of these > > > challenges can never be entirely technological. The political ? at > > > individual, societal and organisational (as in party politics) > > > levels ? has to be central to any serious attempt to address these > > > huge issues. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Angela > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Jo Lewis > > > wrote: > > > Hi Rod > > > The 100% by 2020 was long discussed at the summit but > > > eventually it was adopted - the feeling generally being that > > > the obstacles were more political than technical and that > > > adopting such a high target was a valid position in view of > > > the recent dire projections by climate science. The > > > renewable energy target is for generated power only although > > > it appears that the government may be trying to include > > > solar hot water which should not be counted as it does not > > > generate any power. > > > Jo > > > > > > > > > > > > Jo Lewis > > > rainbird at skymesh.com.au > > > 0412 234 521 > > > 02 4473 7927 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 18/02/2009, at 2:55 PM, Rod Logan wrote: > > > > > > > there are a few comments i would like to make on the > > > > submission. > > > > > > > > > > > > 100% renewables by 2020 > > > > i do not think this is a realistic target. there are many > > > > technical & > > > > political difficulties to achieve this target. what is > > > > wrong with 40% by > > > > 2020 ?? > > > > > > > > > > > > is this target also meant to include transport & > > > > agriculture or just > > > > electricity generation? > > > > > > > > > > > > point 5. time line for renewable energy generation > > > > the figures given by 2020 45,000 gigatonnes. should this > > > > be gigawatts > > > > rather than gigatonnes? > > > > > > > > > > > > the rest of the document looks to be ok > > > > > > > > > > > > rod logan > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > tttplus mailing list > > > > tttplus at austcom.org.au > > > > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > tttplus mailing list > > > tttplus at austcom.org.au > > > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > tttplus mailing list > > > tttplus at austcom.org.au > > > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tttplus mailing list > > tttplus at austcom.org.au > > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus > > _______________________________________________ > tttplus mailing list > tttplus at austcom.org.au > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090219/b3ca99ba/attachment-0001.html From rainbird at skymesh.com.au Thu Feb 19 08:45:24 2009 From: rainbird at skymesh.com.au (Jo Lewis) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 08:45:24 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] climate action groups submission In-Reply-To: <1234954109.4870.18.camel@localhost> References: <1234929304.4879.13.camel@localhost> <3e597ad10902172315k78a1a814n1119c990365d7de8@mail.gmail.com> <4EBAF545-B54E-45A2-912D-F86D6CE4BF6A@skymesh.com.au> <1234954109.4870.18.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <57D6697B-DA07-4ED1-9C69-0DFEA654DC4D@skymesh.com.au> At the Climate Action Summit 500 people from over 140 grass roots climate action groups after considerable discussion agreed to a target of 100% renewables by 2020. Decision making was on a modified consensus basis and when matters came to a vote a minimum 75% majority was required before a measure was accepted. There is no way that we can change this part of the submission. We have to choose whether or not we support the submission as a whole. We have 43 list members and there have been two objections to this one one part of it. I propose that we support the submission. Jo Jo Lewis rainbird at skymesh.com.au 0412 234 521 02 4473 7927 On 18/02/2009, at 9:48 PM, Rod Logan wrote: > 100% renewables by 2020 does not give much room to negotiate or to > justify why this target is necessary. > However with 40% by 2020 you are able to use the arguement of the > unfccc > at the bali conference (that developed countries need to reduce their > emissions by this amount) which kevin rudd attended & signed the kyoto > protocol. > many australian may be concerned about climate change, who do not > understand the science & do not appreciate what may be required to get > to 100% by 2020. they will need to be engaged & convinced that this is > the way to go. its not just the politicians that we need to deal with. > rod logan > On Wed, 2009-02-18 at 18:57 +1100, Jo Lewis wrote: >> Hi Angela >> I really disagree with you on this. The environment movement has been >> undermined by trying too hard to be reasonable and what has happened >> is that the extreme views of heavy industry and the coal lobby have >> essentially written the policies for carbon reduction and renewable >> energy targets. The situation is so bad now that being reasonable is >> inviting defeat and while I accept that reaching 100% will be >> difficult I don't accept that it is impossible (except under current >> policy settings). I also know that current policy settings support >> coal fired power and because of that they are almost certainly going >> to result in runaway global warming. The latest news from the climate >> scientists is of methane and nitrous oxide leakage from the arctic >> melt. These are potent greenhouse gases which will further exacerbate >> global warming. >> Current climate science indicators are so dire that failure to alter >> direction is not an option. >> Jo >> >> >> >> Jo Lewis >> rainbird at skymesh.com.au >> 0412 234 521 >> 02 4473 7927 >> >> >> >> >> On 18/02/2009, at 6:15 PM, Angela Marshall wrote: >> >>> Dear Jo, >>> >>> Thank you for resending the attachment - it had turned into an >>> (unopenable) movie file... >>> >>> I have the same reservations as Rod about the 100% target ? to my >>> mind it is an unrealistic demand (which is not the same as >>> undesirable) and because of this it runs the risk of undermining the >>> submission. Becasue it is such an audacious and optimistic demand >>> the submission reads as an ambit claim rather than a realistic and >>> serious contribution to the debate. I would feel much more >>> comfortable with the CEFE formulation of 50/50 by 2020 ? which is >>> bold but still achievable (both politically and technologically). I >>> certainly do not feel that labelling problems as merely political >>> removes them as obstacles ? in fact the solutions to most of these >>> challenges can never be entirely technological. The political ? at >>> individual, societal and organisational (as in party politics) >>> levels ? has to be central to any serious attempt to address these >>> huge issues. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Angela >>> >>> On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Jo Lewis >>> wrote: >>> Hi Rod >>> The 100% by 2020 was long discussed at the summit but >>> eventually it was adopted - the feeling generally being that >>> the obstacles were more political than technical and that >>> adopting such a high target was a valid position in view of >>> the recent dire projections by climate science. The >>> renewable energy target is for generated power only although >>> it appears that the government may be trying to include >>> solar hot water which should not be counted as it does not >>> generate any power. >>> Jo >>> >>> >>> >>> Jo Lewis >>> rainbird at skymesh.com.au >>> 0412 234 521 >>> 02 4473 7927 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 18/02/2009, at 2:55 PM, Rod Logan wrote: >>> >>>> there are a few comments i would like to make on the >>>> submission. >>>> >>>> >>>> 100% renewables by 2020 >>>> i do not think this is a realistic target. there are many >>>> technical & >>>> political difficulties to achieve this target. what is >>>> wrong with 40% by >>>> 2020 ?? >>>> >>>> >>>> is this target also meant to include transport & >>>> agriculture or just >>>> electricity generation? >>>> >>>> >>>> point 5. time line for renewable energy generation >>>> the figures given by 2020 45,000 gigatonnes. should this >>>> be gigawatts >>>> rather than gigatonnes? >>>> >>>> >>>> the rest of the document looks to be ok >>>> >>>> >>>> rod logan >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> tttplus mailing list >>>> tttplus at austcom.org.au >>>> http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> tttplus mailing list >>> tttplus at austcom.org.au >>> http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> tttplus mailing list >>> tttplus at austcom.org.au >>> http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> tttplus mailing list >> tttplus at austcom.org.au >> http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus > > _______________________________________________ > tttplus mailing list > tttplus at austcom.org.au > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090219/7c28d525/attachment-0001.htm From peteranne at bordernet.com.au Thu Feb 19 08:57:55 2009 From: peteranne at bordernet.com.au (Peter and Anne) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 08:57:55 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] climate action groups submission References: <1234929304.4879.13.camel@localhost><3e597ad10902172315k78a1a814n1119c990365d7de8@mail.gmail.com><4EBAF545-B54E-45A2-912D-F86D6CE4BF6A@skymesh.com.au><1234954109.4870.18.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <63FA923596E74F4BB70E3A404A6AECDE@jrq.local> Carolyn, I agree with you.We all know from experience with politics and particularly with this issue,how there is the fiddling with figures to provide a result which is not acceptable. I believe we should support the proposal as we are talking about the future of our generations. Push for what we know is ideal. Why settle on second best.? Peter Doolan ----- Original Message ----- From: Carolyn Wells To: The Triangle Transition Towns Mailing List Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 8:21 AM Subject: Re: [tttplus] climate action groups submission Rod, Angela If I understand the situation correctly, the submission isn't going to be changed, and we have the option of putting the TTT+ name to it. Are you saying that we should not? I understand your argument, but I also appreciate the position that our society is fiddling (with political sensitivities) while the globe burns. There are large sections of the population who are outraged by the pathetic targets, so why not put in an ambit claim? Carolyn On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 9:48 PM, Rod Logan wrote: 100% renewables by 2020 does not give much room to negotiate or to justify why this target is necessary. However with 40% by 2020 you are able to use the arguement of the unfccc at the bali conference (that developed countries need to reduce their emissions by this amount) which kevin rudd attended & signed the kyoto protocol. many australian may be concerned about climate change, who do not understand the science & do not appreciate what may be required to get to 100% by 2020. they will need to be engaged & convinced that this is the way to go. its not just the politicians that we need to deal with. rod logan On Wed, 2009-02-18 at 18:57 +1100, Jo Lewis wrote: > Hi Angela > I really disagree with you on this. The environment movement has been > undermined by trying too hard to be reasonable and what has happened > is that the extreme views of heavy industry and the coal lobby have > essentially written the policies for carbon reduction and renewable > energy targets. The situation is so bad now that being reasonable is > inviting defeat and while I accept that reaching 100% will be > difficult I don't accept that it is impossible (except under current > policy settings). I also know that current policy settings support > coal fired power and because of that they are almost certainly going > to result in runaway global warming. The latest news from the climate > scientists is of methane and nitrous oxide leakage from the arctic > melt. These are potent greenhouse gases which will further exacerbate > global warming. > Current climate science indicators are so dire that failure to alter > direction is not an option. > Jo > > > > Jo Lewis > rainbird at skymesh.com.au > 0412 234 521 > 02 4473 7927 > > > > > On 18/02/2009, at 6:15 PM, Angela Marshall wrote: > > > Dear Jo, > > > > Thank you for resending the attachment - it had turned into an > > (unopenable) movie file... > > > > I have the same reservations as Rod about the 100% target ? to my > > mind it is an unrealistic demand (which is not the same as > > undesirable) and because of this it runs the risk of undermining the > > submission. Becasue it is such an audacious and optimistic demand > > the submission reads as an ambit claim rather than a realistic and > > serious contribution to the debate. I would feel much more > > comfortable with the CEFE formulation of 50/50 by 2020 ? which is > > bold but still achievable (both politically and technologically). I > > certainly do not feel that labelling problems as merely political > > removes them as obstacles ? in fact the solutions to most of these > > challenges can never be entirely technological. The political ? at > > individual, societal and organisational (as in party politics) > > levels ? has to be central to any serious attempt to address these > > huge issues. > > > > Cheers, > > Angela > > > > On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Jo Lewis > > wrote: > > Hi Rod > > The 100% by 2020 was long discussed at the summit but > > eventually it was adopted - the feeling generally being that > > the obstacles were more political than technical and that > > adopting such a high target was a valid position in view of > > the recent dire projections by climate science. The > > renewable energy target is for generated power only although > > it appears that the government may be trying to include > > solar hot water which should not be counted as it does not > > generate any power. > > Jo > > > > > > > > Jo Lewis > > rainbird at skymesh.com.au > > 0412 234 521 > > 02 4473 7927 > > > > > > > > > > > > On 18/02/2009, at 2:55 PM, Rod Logan wrote: > > > > > there are a few comments i would like to make on the > > > submission. > > > > > > > > > 100% renewables by 2020 > > > i do not think this is a realistic target. there are many > > > technical & > > > political difficulties to achieve this target. what is > > > wrong with 40% by > > > 2020 ?? > > > > > > > > > is this target also meant to include transport & > > > agriculture or just > > > electricity generation? > > > > > > > > > point 5. time line for renewable energy generation > > > the figures given by 2020 45,000 gigatonnes. should this > > > be gigawatts > > > rather than gigatonnes? > > > > > > > > > the rest of the document looks to be ok > > > > > > > > > rod logan > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > tttplus mailing list > > > tttplus at austcom.org.au > > > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tttplus mailing list > > tttplus at austcom.org.au > > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tttplus mailing list > > tttplus at austcom.org.au > > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus > > > _______________________________________________ > tttplus mailing list > tttplus at austcom.org.au > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus _______________________________________________ tttplus mailing list tttplus at austcom.org.au http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ tttplus mailing list tttplus at austcom.org.au http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090219/eb70cc3d/attachment.htm From asmarshall11 at gmail.com Thu Feb 19 09:03:00 2009 From: asmarshall11 at gmail.com (Angela Marshall) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 09:03:00 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] climate action groups submission In-Reply-To: References: <1234929304.4879.13.camel@localhost> <3e597ad10902172315k78a1a814n1119c990365d7de8@mail.gmail.com> <4EBAF545-B54E-45A2-912D-F86D6CE4BF6A@skymesh.com.au> <1234954109.4870.18.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <3e597ad10902181403l1dc4ce29ua15561f589e733ae@mail.gmail.com> I certainly wouldn't stand in the way of TTT+ being a signatory (especially as I assume that my view is a minority one on this side of the argument) ? but I do have to think of it as an ambit claim rather than a realistic and achievable goal. However, I do think we have to think clearly and realistically about 'selling' our increasingly dire message. If, as a movement, we wish to avoid being in a permanent state of despair/cynicism/victimhood/martyrdom etc then I think we would be well advised to think carefully about the effect that this sort of absolutism has ? both on ourselves and on the general population ? of this country and of all other nations. We have to make sure that we remain relevant and do not deal ourselves out of the negotiating process. So much of politics is about how to break through and communicate and we run the serious risk of losing that particular contest and to be left in an isolated corner talking to ourselves. Angela On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 8:21 AM, Carolyn Wells wrote: > Rod, Angela > If I understand the situation correctly, the submission isn't going to be > changed, and we have the option of putting the TTT+ name to it. Are you > saying that we should not? > I understand your argument, but I also appreciate the position that our > society is fiddling (with political sensitivities) while the globe burns. > There are large sections of the population who are outraged by the pathetic > targets, so why not put in an ambit claim? > Carolyn > > > On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 9:48 PM, Rod Logan < > wombathillorganics at redzone.com.au> wrote: > >> 100% renewables by 2020 does not give much room to negotiate or to >> justify why this target is necessary. >> However with 40% by 2020 you are able to use the arguement of the unfccc >> at the bali conference (that developed countries need to reduce their >> emissions by this amount) which kevin rudd attended & signed the kyoto >> protocol. >> many australian may be concerned about climate change, who do not >> understand the science & do not appreciate what may be required to get >> to 100% by 2020. they will need to be engaged & convinced that this is >> the way to go. its not just the politicians that we need to deal with. >> rod logan >> On Wed, 2009-02-18 at 18:57 +1100, Jo Lewis wrote: >> > Hi Angela >> > I really disagree with you on this. The environment movement has been >> > undermined by trying too hard to be reasonable and what has happened >> > is that the extreme views of heavy industry and the coal lobby have >> > essentially written the policies for carbon reduction and renewable >> > energy targets. The situation is so bad now that being reasonable is >> > inviting defeat and while I accept that reaching 100% will be >> > difficult I don't accept that it is impossible (except under current >> > policy settings). I also know that current policy settings support >> > coal fired power and because of that they are almost certainly going >> > to result in runaway global warming. The latest news from the climate >> > scientists is of methane and nitrous oxide leakage from the arctic >> > melt. These are potent greenhouse gases which will further exacerbate >> > global warming. >> > Current climate science indicators are so dire that failure to alter >> > direction is not an option. >> > Jo >> > >> > >> > >> > Jo Lewis >> > rainbird at skymesh.com.au >> > 0412 234 521 >> > 02 4473 7927 >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On 18/02/2009, at 6:15 PM, Angela Marshall wrote: >> > >> > > Dear Jo, >> > > >> > > Thank you for resending the attachment - it had turned into an >> > > (unopenable) movie file... >> > > >> > > I have the same reservations as Rod about the 100% target ? to my >> > > mind it is an unrealistic demand (which is not the same as >> > > undesirable) and because of this it runs the risk of undermining the >> > > submission. Becasue it is such an audacious and optimistic demand >> > > the submission reads as an ambit claim rather than a realistic and >> > > serious contribution to the debate. I would feel much more >> > > comfortable with the CEFE formulation of 50/50 by 2020 ? which is >> > > bold but still achievable (both politically and technologically). I >> > > certainly do not feel that labelling problems as merely political >> > > removes them as obstacles ? in fact the solutions to most of these >> > > challenges can never be entirely technological. The political ? at >> > > individual, societal and organisational (as in party politics) >> > > levels ? has to be central to any serious attempt to address these >> > > huge issues. >> > > >> > > Cheers, >> > > Angela >> > > >> > > On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Jo Lewis >> > > wrote: >> > > Hi Rod >> > > The 100% by 2020 was long discussed at the summit but >> > > eventually it was adopted - the feeling generally being that >> > > the obstacles were more political than technical and that >> > > adopting such a high target was a valid position in view of >> > > the recent dire projections by climate science. The >> > > renewable energy target is for generated power only although >> > > it appears that the government may be trying to include >> > > solar hot water which should not be counted as it does not >> > > generate any power. >> > > Jo >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Jo Lewis >> > > rainbird at skymesh.com.au >> > > 0412 234 521 >> > > 02 4473 7927 >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > On 18/02/2009, at 2:55 PM, Rod Logan wrote: >> > > >> > > > there are a few comments i would like to make on the >> > > > submission. >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > 100% renewables by 2020 >> > > > i do not think this is a realistic target. there are many >> > > > technical & >> > > > political difficulties to achieve this target. what is >> > > > wrong with 40% by >> > > > 2020 ?? >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > is this target also meant to include transport & >> > > > agriculture or just >> > > > electricity generation? >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > point 5. time line for renewable energy generation >> > > > the figures given by 2020 45,000 gigatonnes. should this >> > > > be gigawatts >> > > > rather than gigatonnes? >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > the rest of the document looks to be ok >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > rod logan >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ >> > > > tttplus mailing list >> > > > tttplus at austcom.org.au >> > > > >> http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > tttplus mailing list >> > > tttplus at austcom.org.au >> > > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus >> > > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > tttplus mailing list >> > > tttplus at austcom.org.au >> > > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > tttplus mailing list >> > tttplus at austcom.org.au >> > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus >> >> _______________________________________________ >> tttplus mailing list >> tttplus at austcom.org.au >> http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus >> > > > _______________________________________________ > tttplus mailing list > tttplus at austcom.org.au > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090219/0f4306fd/attachment-0001.htm From geoffreygrigg at thebegavalley.org.au Thu Feb 19 09:54:20 2009 From: geoffreygrigg at thebegavalley.org.au (Geoffrey Grigg) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 09:54:20 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] Fwd: National Folk Festival In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Friends, Penny Cilento from Murrumbateman has invited Transition Towns to appear with the Earthworx tent at the National Folk Festival * See letter below and attachment.* Would someone like to co-ordinate this ? I have to focus on Sustain Magazine so cannot get too deep. Geoffrey ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Penny Cilento Date: 2009/2/19 Subject: National Folk Festival To: transitiontown-owner at austcom.org.au Hi Geoffery, My name isPenny Cilento and this year I am organising the Earthworx tent for the 2009 festival. I was wondering if you could have a look at the letter attached and let me know if you -transition town- would be intersted in having a disply/presence at the festival? I llok forward to hearing from you soon and thanks for all the wonderful work everyone does within the tranistion town network. It is very exciting. Kind regards -- Penny Cilento 33 Rose Street Murrumbateman NSW 2582 +61-(0)2 6227 0491 Mob:+61(0)407 066 932 "One must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star." -- Nietzsche -- Geoffrey Grigg, 02-6492 5000 0447 273 342 Project Coordinator, Community Network http://australiancommunities.org.au Editor, Sustain Magazine http://sustain.org.au Austcom - Building Sustainable Communities The Australian Community Network australiancommunities.org.au is a shared network shaped by a real community. It is a collection of groups who, by their presence, have crafted a working array of tools such as web pages, on line database applications, events notices, news systems, public access areas, email mailing lists and more. Our core precept is that we help build social, economic and environmentally sustainable communities. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090219/5b15f693/attachment-0001.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Earthworx_tent[1].doc Type: application/msword Size: 28672 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090219/5b15f693/attachment-0001.doc From rainbird at skymesh.com.au Thu Feb 19 10:05:45 2009 From: rainbird at skymesh.com.au (Jo Lewis) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 10:05:45 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] climate action groups submission In-Reply-To: <3e597ad10902181403l1dc4ce29ua15561f589e733ae@mail.gmail.com> References: <1234929304.4879.13.camel@localhost> <3e597ad10902172315k78a1a814n1119c990365d7de8@mail.gmail.com> <4EBAF545-B54E-45A2-912D-F86D6CE4BF6A@skymesh.com.au> <1234954109.4870.18.camel@localhost> <3e597ad10902181403l1dc4ce29ua15561f589e733ae@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8EA891D5-F7E2-49DE-A118-117768B7EE90@skymesh.com.au> Thank you Angela, Carolyn & Rod. I think that this email discussion has been valuable and I do understand your reservations re the target of 100% by 2020 it is a huge ask but maybe we have to start thinking in a different frame if we are to tackle this problem. BTW Al Gore has called on President Obama to go for 100% renewable energy in 20 years. Jo PS I will sign us up Jo Lewis rainbird at skymesh.com.au 0412 234 521 02 4473 7927 On 19/02/2009, at 9:03 AM, Angela Marshall wrote: > I certainly wouldn't stand in the way of TTT+ being a signatory > (especially as I assume that my view is a minority one on this side > of the argument) ? but I do have to think of it as an ambit claim > rather than a realistic and achievable goal. > > However, I do think we have to think clearly and realistically > about 'selling' our increasingly dire message. If, as a movement, > we wish to avoid being in a permanent state of despair/cynicism/ > victimhood/martyrdom etc then I think we would be well advised to > think carefully about the effect that this sort of absolutism has ? > both on ourselves and on the general population ? of this country > and of all other nations. We have to make sure that we remain > relevant and do not deal ourselves out of the negotiating process. > So much of politics is about how to break through and communicate > and we run the serious risk of losing that particular contest and > to be left in an isolated corner talking to ourselves. > Angela > > On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 8:21 AM, Carolyn Wells > wrote: > Rod, Angela > If I understand the situation correctly, the submission isn't going > to be changed, and we have the option of putting the TTT+ name to > it. Are you saying that we should not? > I understand your argument, but I also appreciate the position that > our society is fiddling (with political sensitivities) while the > globe burns. There are large sections of the population who are > outraged by the pathetic targets, so why not put in an ambit claim? > Carolyn > > > On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 9:48 PM, Rod Logan > wrote: > 100% renewables by 2020 does not give much room to negotiate or to > justify why this target is necessary. > However with 40% by 2020 you are able to use the arguement of the > unfccc > at the bali conference (that developed countries need to reduce their > emissions by this amount) which kevin rudd attended & signed the kyoto > protocol. > many australian may be concerned about climate change, who do not > understand the science & do not appreciate what may be required to get > to 100% by 2020. they will need to be engaged & convinced that this is > the way to go. its not just the politicians that we need to deal with. > rod logan > On Wed, 2009-02-18 at 18:57 +1100, Jo Lewis wrote: > > Hi Angela > > I really disagree with you on this. The environment movement has > been > > undermined by trying too hard to be reasonable and what has happened > > is that the extreme views of heavy industry and the coal lobby have > > essentially written the policies for carbon reduction and renewable > > energy targets. The situation is so bad now that being reasonable is > > inviting defeat and while I accept that reaching 100% will be > > difficult I don't accept that it is impossible (except under current > > policy settings). I also know that current policy settings support > > coal fired power and because of that they are almost certainly going > > to result in runaway global warming. The latest news from the > climate > > scientists is of methane and nitrous oxide leakage from the arctic > > melt. These are potent greenhouse gases which will further > exacerbate > > global warming. > > Current climate science indicators are so dire that failure to alter > > direction is not an option. > > Jo > > > > > > > > Jo Lewis > > rainbird at skymesh.com.au > > 0412 234 521 > > 02 4473 7927 > > > > > > > > > > On 18/02/2009, at 6:15 PM, Angela Marshall wrote: > > > > > Dear Jo, > > > > > > Thank you for resending the attachment - it had turned into an > > > (unopenable) movie file... > > > > > > I have the same reservations as Rod about the 100% target ? to my > > > mind it is an unrealistic demand (which is not the same as > > > undesirable) and because of this it runs the risk of > undermining the > > > submission. Becasue it is such an audacious and optimistic demand > > > the submission reads as an ambit claim rather than a realistic and > > > serious contribution to the debate. I would feel much more > > > comfortable with the CEFE formulation of 50/50 by 2020 ? which is > > > bold but still achievable (both politically and > technologically). I > > > certainly do not feel that labelling problems as merely political > > > removes them as obstacles ? in fact the solutions to most of these > > > challenges can never be entirely technological. The political ? at > > > individual, societal and organisational (as in party politics) > > > levels ? has to be central to any serious attempt to address these > > > huge issues. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Angela > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Jo Lewis > > > > wrote: > > > Hi Rod > > > The 100% by 2020 was long discussed at the summit but > > > eventually it was adopted - the feeling generally being > that > > > the obstacles were more political than technical and that > > > adopting such a high target was a valid position in > view of > > > the recent dire projections by climate science. The > > > renewable energy target is for generated power only > although > > > it appears that the government may be trying to include > > > solar hot water which should not be counted as it does not > > > generate any power. > > > Jo > > > > > > > > > > > > Jo Lewis > > > rainbird at skymesh.com.au > > > 0412 234 521 > > > 02 4473 7927 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 18/02/2009, at 2:55 PM, Rod Logan wrote: > > > > > > > there are a few comments i would like to make on the > > > > submission. > > > > > > > > > > > > 100% renewables by 2020 > > > > i do not think this is a realistic target. there are > many > > > > technical & > > > > political difficulties to achieve this target. what is > > > > wrong with 40% by > > > > 2020 ?? > > > > > > > > > > > > is this target also meant to include transport & > > > > agriculture or just > > > > electricity generation? > > > > > > > > > > > > point 5. time line for renewable energy generation > > > > the figures given by 2020 45,000 gigatonnes. should this > > > > be gigawatts > > > > rather than gigatonnes? > > > > > > > > > > > > the rest of the document looks to be ok > > > > > > > > > > > > rod logan > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > tttplus mailing list > > > > tttplus at austcom.org.au > > > > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ > tttplus > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > tttplus mailing list > > > tttplus at austcom.org.au > > > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ > tttplus > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > tttplus mailing list > > > tttplus at austcom.org.au > > > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tttplus mailing list > > tttplus at austcom.org.au > > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus > > _______________________________________________ > tttplus mailing list > tttplus at austcom.org.au > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus > > > _______________________________________________ > tttplus mailing list > tttplus at austcom.org.au > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus > > > _______________________________________________ > tttplus mailing list > tttplus at austcom.org.au > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090219/908299d9/attachment.htm From geoffreygrigg at thebegavalley.org.au Thu Feb 19 10:33:13 2009 From: geoffreygrigg at thebegavalley.org.au (Geoffrey Grigg) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 10:33:13 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] Growing the New Economy Message-ID: Hello Transition groups, I sent John Champagnes email note about *bioneering* to Economic Gardening and Development mailing list in the USA. This is the Economic Gardening model the Auscom network is (loosely) based on. See a primer at http://www.littletongov.org/bia/economicgardening/ Below is the reply from one of the EconDev list people with a green network focus. Looks very sharp - some lessons to be learned there !!! http://midtownbrews.net I would like to include them in our mailing list and see what we can do to help inform and share. I have subscribed to their network. *My return letter to Betsey is below.* G ============= *Dear Betsey * I have taken up your invitation below and I have joined your electonic network. Thanks. Thanks also for posting our note about *bioneering* to your network. It's interesting stuff - and we'll attend the seminar and kleep you informed. We (Austcom - The Australian Community Network) are a not-for-profit organisation helping to build sustainable communities socially, economically and environmentally. We provide a communications infrastructure (namely websites that are content management based) along side mailing lists, a hard copy magazine (Sustain) and other tools to provide the communications resources we will need in this period of community development. Sustain is online at http://sustain.org.au We are picking up steam with Transition Towns (re-engineering communities to manage and prosper in the face of Peak Oil, Climate Change and declining global economic security) - and there is a lot of community building happening. http://transition.org.au is the Transition network start page - we have been going about 5 months now and Transition Towns is a worldwide network to develop local Energy Descent Action Plans at the local level. There are many projects we are involved in or supporting through the Austcom http://austcom.org.au - network - too many to mention Locally, food is promising to be a critical issue we are collectively working on to change our food supply infrastructure and business base - as that is the most at-risk sector. Our flagship community network (where it all started) is at http://thebegavalley.org.au - and our base town (Bega, New South Wales, Australia) has a sister city relationship with Littleton Colorado (Chris Gibbons (ED) home town). May I add you to our Transition Towns mailing list ? - it's broadcast only - but there is a new transition-exchange list that has just started. Cheers and thanks again for making the connection. Geoffrey Grigg ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: betseymerkel at gmail.com Date: 2009/2/19 Subject: [EG] Re: Fwd: [Fwd: INVITATION - Growing the New Economy] To: Econ-dev Dear Betsey I have taken up your invitation below and I have joined your electonic network. Thanks. Thanks for posting our note about *bionomics* to your network. We (Austcom - The Australian Community Network) are a not-for-profit organisation helping to build sustainable communities socially, economically and environmentally. We provide a communications infrastructure (namely websites that are content management based) along side mailing lists and other tools. Our broadband coverage is not so great - so live collaboration - while an excellent option - may not work for some. We are picking up steam with Transition Towns (re-engineering communities to manage Peak Oil, Climate Change and declining global economic security) http://transition.org.au There are many projects we are involved in or supporting through the network - too many to mention Locally, food is promising to be a critical issue we are collectively working on to change our food supply infrastructure and business base - as that is ther most at-risk sector. Our flagship community network (where it all started) is at http://thebegavalley.org.au - and our base town (Bega, New South Wales, Australia) has a sister city relationship with Littleton Colorado (Chris Gibbons (ED) home town). May I add you to our Transition Towns mailing list - it's broadcast only - butthere is a new tranistion-exchange list that has just started. Cheers and thanks again for making the connection. Geoffrey Grigg Thank you for pointing this valuable network out to us! I've posted your information to the Midtown Brews online collaborative community based in Northeast Ohio with a focus on technology, creative industries and all things green. We encourage you and your network thought leaders to post to this public space to share brainpower and strengthen networks. Thanks again and look forward to talking soon! http://midtownbrews.net/news/2009/2/18/australian-sustainability-network-growing Betsey Merkel On Feb 15, 10:43 pm, Geoffrey Grigg wrote: > Dear Econ-Dev, > > Welcome from Australia. > > Below is news of a coming seminar in Australia. > > Thought it worth sending it around. > > There is a very strong sustainability network growing here in Australia. A > new economic paradigm within new economics! > > All the best > > Geoffrey Grigg > Bega, NSW, Australiahttp://austcom.org.au > > > > > > > Dear Going Local participants > > > These are definitely not easy times for those in business -- nor for the > > communities that they are an integral part of. A credit drought, dislocated > > global markets, massive destruction of stock market value, plus the > > uncertainties of carbon trading and energy prices. > > > But behind all this is a far deeper structural driver that will reshape our > > economy over the coming years. The unavoidable transition to a sustainable > > way of living and working, of producing goods and services, of doing > > business. This transition will be the focus of a three-day conference, > > 26-28 June 2009 in Coffs Habour. > > > Bioneering Business* : Seeding & Growing the New Economy > > > Our keynote speaker will be prominent US economist, *Michael Shuman*, > > author of *The Small Mart Revolution* and *Going Local*. Michael was a > > co-founder of the Business Alliance for Local Living Economies (BALLE) and > > has recently been appointed BALLE's Director of Research and Public Policy. > > > Bioneering Business will be structured around six themes, the details of > > which are in the attached invitation. Right now we are seeking leading > > business practitioners and researchers for the panel sessions that will open > > discussion on each theme. We'd appreciate your suggestions. > > > *The invitation attached is a Call for Expressions of Interest*. > > > If you are interested in... > > > ** Joining a theme panel > > > * Offering a presentation or leading a discussion in the Open Space > > sessions > > > * Attending Bioneering Business as a participant* > > > ...then please let us know right away. We will then send you more > > information about the conference program and registration arrangements. > > > We intend to limit the number of participants overall and seek to balance > > representation between the different sectors in order to ensure the quality > > of discussion. It is therefore important to "throw your hat in the ring" as > > early as possible. > > > Up-dates on conference preparations will be posted on our website at: > >www.wollumbin.org.au > > > Please don't delay. We need to know if you are interested in Bioneering > > Business and to share your suggestions on outstanding panellists and > > discussion leaders you would like to meet there. > > > Regards, > > > Ken McLeod > > > *Kenneth McLeod > > Wollumbin Institute > > PO Box 193, Brunswick Heads, NSW 2483 > >www.wollumbin.org.au > > k... at cef.com.au > > 0412 871 789* > > > ** NOTE: A bioneer is "a biological pioneer, an ecological inventor > > who's got an elegant and often simple set of solutions for environmental > > conundrums." We are using the term to refer to the process of reframing our > > approach to business within the bio-physical limits of the planet -- doing > > business as though the future matters.*< http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioneer#cite_note-utne-0> > > -- > Geoffrey Grigg, > 02-6492 5000 > 0447 273 342 > Project Coordinator, Community Networkhttp://australiancommunities.org.au > Editor, Sustain Magazinehttp://sustain.org.au > > Austcom - Building Sustainable Communities > > The Australian Community Network > australiancommunities.org.au is a shared network shaped by a real community. > It is a collection of groups who, by their presence, have crafted a > working array of tools such as web pages, on line database applications, > events notices, news systems, public access areas, email mailing lists and > more. Our core precept is that we help build social, economic and > environmentally sustainable communities. > > -- > Geoffrey Grigg, > 02-6492 5000 > 0447 273 342 > Project Coordinator, Community Networkhttp://australiancommunities.org.au > Editor, Sustain Magazinehttp://sustain.org.au > > Austcom - Building Sustainable Communities > > The Australian Community Network > australiancommunities.org.au is a shared network shaped by a real community. > It is a collection of groups who, by their presence, have crafted a > working array of tools such as web pages, on line database applications, > events notices, news systems, public access areas, email mailing lists and > more. Our core precept is that we help build social, economic and > environmentally sustainable communities. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Econ-dev" group. To post to this group, send email to econ-dev at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to econ-dev+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/econ-dev?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -- Geoffrey Grigg, 02-6492 5000 0447 273 342 Project Coordinator, Community Network http://australiancommunities.org.au Editor, Sustain Magazine http://sustain.org.au Austcom - Building Sustainable Communities The Australian Community Network australiancommunities.org.au is a shared network shaped by a real community. It is a collection of groups who, by their presence, have crafted a working array of tools such as web pages, on line database applications, events notices, news systems, public access areas, email mailing lists and more. Our core precept is that we help build social, economic and environmentally sustainable communities. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090219/1c6bf41b/attachment-0001.htm From unwind at tilba.com.au Thu Feb 19 11:01:59 2009 From: unwind at tilba.com.au (The Stay at Tintagel) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 11:01:59 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] climate action groups submission In-Reply-To: <8EA891D5-F7E2-49DE-A118-117768B7EE90@skymesh.com.au> References: <1234929304.4879.13.camel@localhost> <3e597ad10902172315k78a1a814n1119c990365d7de8@mail.gmail.com> <4EBAF545-B54E-45A2-912D-F86D6CE4BF6A@skymesh.com.au> <1234954109.4870.18.camel@localhost> <3e597ad10902181403l1dc4ce29ua15561f589e733ae@mail.gmail.com> <8EA891D5-F7E2-49DE-A118-117768B7EE90@skymesh.com.au> Message-ID: <007a01c99225$4c9f3fc0$e5ddbf40$@com.au> It's important to set ambitious goals and equally important to be credible. We do have to remain reasonable or we will be labelled as an extreme and irrelevant group. That has been the political mantra since the ten second grab was invented and that will not change. If we don't have practical solutions to achieve our goals (as we do for some) then it's all just talk. I won't object to the submission as a whole because there's a lot of worthwhile stuff there but we need to avoid becoming eco-warriors in an ideological war because history tells us that the war inevitably becomes more important than the cause. Peter From: tttplus-bounces at austcom.org.au [mailto:tttplus-bounces at austcom.org.au] On Behalf Of Jo Lewis Sent: Thursday, 19 February 2009 10:06 AM To: The Triangle Transition Towns Mailing List Subject: Re: [tttplus] climate action groups submission Thank you Angela, Carolyn & Rod. I think that this email discussion has been valuable and I do understand your reservations re the target of 100% by 2020 it is a huge ask but maybe we have to start thinking in a different frame if we are to tackle this problem. BTW Al Gore has called on President Obama to go for 100% renewable energy in 20 years. Jo PS I will sign us up Jo Lewis rainbird at skymesh.com.au 0412 234 521 02 4473 7927 On 19/02/2009, at 9:03 AM, Angela Marshall wrote: I certainly wouldn't stand in the way of TTT+ being a signatory (especially as I assume that my view is a minority one on this side of the argument) - but I do have to think of it as an ambit claim rather than a realistic and achievable goal. However, I do think we have to think clearly and realistically about 'selling' our increasingly dire message. If, as a movement, we wish to avoid being in a permanent state of despair/cynicism/victimhood/martyrdom etc then I think we would be well advised to think carefully about the effect that this sort of absolutism has - both on ourselves and on the general population - of this country and of all other nations. We have to make sure that we remain relevant and do not deal ourselves out of the negotiating process. So much of politics is about how to break through and communicate and we run the serious risk of losing that particular contest and to be left in an isolated corner talking to ourselves. Angela On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 8:21 AM, Carolyn Wells wrote: Rod, Angela If I understand the situation correctly, the submission isn't going to be changed, and we have the option of putting the TTT+ name to it. Are you saying that we should not? I understand your argument, but I also appreciate the position that our society is fiddling (with political sensitivities) while the globe burns. There are large sections of the population who are outraged by the pathetic targets, so why not put in an ambit claim? Carolyn On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 9:48 PM, Rod Logan wrote: 100% renewables by 2020 does not give much room to negotiate or to justify why this target is necessary. However with 40% by 2020 you are able to use the arguement of the unfccc at the bali conference (that developed countries need to reduce their emissions by this amount) which kevin rudd attended & signed the kyoto protocol. many australian may be concerned about climate change, who do not understand the science & do not appreciate what may be required to get to 100% by 2020. they will need to be engaged & convinced that this is the way to go. its not just the politicians that we need to deal with. rod logan On Wed, 2009-02-18 at 18:57 +1100, Jo Lewis wrote: > Hi Angela > I really disagree with you on this. The environment movement has been > undermined by trying too hard to be reasonable and what has happened > is that the extreme views of heavy industry and the coal lobby have > essentially written the policies for carbon reduction and renewable > energy targets. The situation is so bad now that being reasonable is > inviting defeat and while I accept that reaching 100% will be > difficult I don't accept that it is impossible (except under current > policy settings). I also know that current policy settings support > coal fired power and because of that they are almost certainly going > to result in runaway global warming. The latest news from the climate > scientists is of methane and nitrous oxide leakage from the arctic > melt. These are potent greenhouse gases which will further exacerbate > global warming. > Current climate science indicators are so dire that failure to alter > direction is not an option. > Jo > > > > Jo Lewis > rainbird at skymesh.com.au > 0412 234 521 > 02 4473 7927 > > > > > On 18/02/2009, at 6:15 PM, Angela Marshall wrote: > > > Dear Jo, > > > > Thank you for resending the attachment - it had turned into an > > (unopenable) movie file... > > > > I have the same reservations as Rod about the 100% target - to my > > mind it is an unrealistic demand (which is not the same as > > undesirable) and because of this it runs the risk of undermining the > > submission. Becasue it is such an audacious and optimistic demand > > the submission reads as an ambit claim rather than a realistic and > > serious contribution to the debate. I would feel much more > > comfortable with the CEFE formulation of 50/50 by 2020 - which is > > bold but still achievable (both politically and technologically). I > > certainly do not feel that labelling problems as merely political > > removes them as obstacles - in fact the solutions to most of these > > challenges can never be entirely technological. The political - at > > individual, societal and organisational (as in party politics) > > levels - has to be central to any serious attempt to address these > > huge issues. > > > > Cheers, > > Angela > > > > On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Jo Lewis > > wrote: > > Hi Rod > > The 100% by 2020 was long discussed at the summit but > > eventually it was adopted - the feeling generally being that > > the obstacles were more political than technical and that > > adopting such a high target was a valid position in view of > > the recent dire projections by climate science. The > > renewable energy target is for generated power only although > > it appears that the government may be trying to include > > solar hot water which should not be counted as it does not > > generate any power. > > Jo > > > > > > > > Jo Lewis > > rainbird at skymesh.com.au > > 0412 234 521 > > 02 4473 7927 > > > > > > > > > > > > On 18/02/2009, at 2:55 PM, Rod Logan wrote: > > > > > there are a few comments i would like to make on the > > > submission. > > > > > > > > > 100% renewables by 2020 > > > i do not think this is a realistic target. there are many > > > technical & > > > political difficulties to achieve this target. what is > > > wrong with 40% by > > > 2020 ?? > > > > > > > > > is this target also meant to include transport & > > > agriculture or just > > > electricity generation? > > > > > > > > > point 5. time line for renewable energy generation > > > the figures given by 2020 45,000 gigatonnes. should this > > > be gigawatts > > > rather than gigatonnes? > > > > > > > > > the rest of the document looks to be ok > > > > > > > > > rod logan > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > tttplus mailing list > > > tttplus at austcom.org.au > > > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tttplus mailing list > > tttplus at austcom.org.au > > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tttplus mailing list > > tttplus at austcom.org.au > > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus > > > _______________________________________________ > tttplus mailing list > tttplus at austcom.org.au > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus _______________________________________________ tttplus mailing list tttplus at austcom.org.au http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus _______________________________________________ tttplus mailing list tttplus at austcom.org.au http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus _______________________________________________ tttplus mailing list tttplus at austcom.org.au http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090219/1c79c958/attachment.htm From gary at spiritude.net Thu Feb 19 11:32:24 2009 From: gary at spiritude.net (Gary Hooley) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 11:32:24 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] [Fwd: [ttbega] ABC radio national Fora article - food security] Message-ID: <1235003544.6873.34.camel@gary-laptop-UB2> Below is a message from John Barlow to the TTBega group, it contains a link to a recorded session which is a very good item to promote TT and sustainable food production. I recommend taking the time listening to it. Best Regards, Gary H. -------- Forwarded Message -------- > From: John Barlow > Reply-To: john.barlow at guru.com.au, Transition Town Mailing List Bega > > To: Transition Town Bega mailing list > Subject: [ttbega] ABC radio national Fora article - food security > Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 07:12:10 +1100 > > > I heard an article on the radio tonight, mentioning Rob Hopkins and > Transition Towns a lot, and thought people might be interested. Should > drum up some interest! > > The speaker was Patrick Holden, he is visiting Australia from the U.K. > > You can listen to the talk at > http://www.abc.net.au/rn/foraradio/stories/2009/2494125.htm > > A description of the talk follows: > > There are many who are extremely concerned by the threat posed to > agriculture by climate change and a world running low on fossil fuels. > But when Patrick Holden first started to consider the implications of > trying to run his organic farm without fuel or even electricity, he > became so alarmed he re-thought his entire philosophical approach to > organic farming. > He explains why we need to fundamentally change the way we produce our > food and how this shift can be achieved. > > > > John Barlow > > > > _______________________________________________ > ttbega mailing list > ttbega at austcom.org.au > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ttbega > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090219/ace32d65/attachment-0001.htm From mountainvalleyvegies at gmail.com Thu Feb 19 21:58:08 2009 From: mountainvalleyvegies at gmail.com (ray buckley) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 21:58:08 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] [ttbega] Fwd: National Folk Festival In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Awareness is good. Close to Canberra I am keen. Ray On 19/02/2009, Geoffrey Grigg wrote: > Friends, > > Penny Cilento from Murrumbateman has invited Transition Towns to appear with > the Earthworx tent at the National Folk Festival > * > See letter below and attachment.* > > Would someone like to co-ordinate this ? I have to focus on Sustain Magazine > so cannot get too deep. > > Geoffrey > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Penny Cilento > Date: 2009/2/19 > Subject: National Folk Festival > To: transitiontown-owner at austcom.org.au > > > Hi Geoffery, > My name isPenny Cilento and this year I am organising the Earthworx tent for > the 2009 festival. I was wondering if you could have a look at the letter > attached and let me know if you -transition town- would be intersted in > having a disply/presence at the festival? I llok forward to hearing from > you soon and thanks for all the wonderful work everyone does within the > tranistion town network. It is very exciting. > > Kind regards > > -- > Penny Cilento > 33 Rose Street Murrumbateman > NSW 2582 > +61-(0)2 6227 0491 > Mob:+61(0)407 066 932 > "One must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing > star." -- Nietzsche > > > > > -- > Geoffrey Grigg, > 02-6492 5000 > 0447 273 342 > Project Coordinator, Community Network > http://australiancommunities.org.au > Editor, Sustain Magazine > http://sustain.org.au > > Austcom - Building Sustainable Communities > > The Australian Community Network > australiancommunities.org.au is a shared network shaped by a real community. > It is a collection of groups who, by their presence, have crafted a > working array of tools such as web pages, on line database applications, > events notices, news systems, public access areas, email mailing lists and > more. Our core precept is that we help build social, economic and > environmentally sustainable communities. > From rainbird at skymesh.com.au Fri Feb 20 12:45:22 2009 From: rainbird at skymesh.com.au (Jo Lewis) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 12:45:22 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] [ttbega] Fwd: National Folk Festival In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6B830B9D-CF88-4A63-A844-E3699E3B3188@skymesh.com.au> Hello Ray Thanks for putting up your hand for this one. I have just picked up some visuals and brochures from Carolyn and they will be at the Cobargo Folk Festival at the weekend. We will be using them for presentations and other stalls in the next few weeks but I imagine we can make them available for you to use in Canberra. Have a look at them at the TT display and let us know if you would like to use them Jo Jo Lewis rainbird at skymesh.com.au 0412 234 521 02 4473 7927 On 19/02/2009, at 9:58 PM, ray buckley wrote: > Awareness is good. > > Close to Canberra > I am keen. > > Ray > > On 19/02/2009, Geoffrey Grigg > wrote: >> Friends, >> >> Penny Cilento from Murrumbateman has invited Transition Towns to >> appear with >> the Earthworx tent at the National Folk Festival >> * >> See letter below and attachment.* >> >> Would someone like to co-ordinate this ? I have to focus on >> Sustain Magazine >> so cannot get too deep. >> >> Geoffrey >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Penny Cilento >> Date: 2009/2/19 >> Subject: National Folk Festival >> To: transitiontown-owner at austcom.org.au >> >> >> Hi Geoffery, >> My name isPenny Cilento and this year I am organising the >> Earthworx tent for >> the 2009 festival. I was wondering if you could have a look at >> the letter >> attached and let me know if you -transition town- would be >> intersted in >> having a disply/presence at the festival? I llok forward to >> hearing from >> you soon and thanks for all the wonderful work everyone does >> within the >> tranistion town network. It is very exciting. >> >> Kind regards >> >> -- >> Penny Cilento >> 33 Rose Street Murrumbateman >> NSW 2582 >> +61-(0)2 6227 0491 >> Mob:+61(0)407 066 932 >> "One must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to >> a dancing >> star." -- Nietzsche >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Geoffrey Grigg, >> 02-6492 5000 >> 0447 273 342 >> Project Coordinator, Community Network >> http://australiancommunities.org.au >> Editor, Sustain Magazine >> http://sustain.org.au >> >> Austcom - Building Sustainable Communities >> >> The Australian Community Network >> australiancommunities.org.au is a shared network shaped by a real >> community. >> It is a collection of groups who, by their presence, have crafted a >> working array of tools such as web pages, on line database >> applications, >> events notices, news systems, public access areas, email mailing >> lists and >> more. Our core precept is that we help build social, economic and >> environmentally sustainable communities. >> > _______________________________________________ > tttplus mailing list > tttplus at austcom.org.au > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090220/6460d51d/attachment.htm From penny.cilento at gmail.com Fri Feb 20 05:46:43 2009 From: penny.cilento at gmail.com (Penny Cilento) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 05:46:43 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] [ttbega] Fwd: National Folk Festival In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Ray, Thanks for offering to coordinate the Transition towns involvement. I will be in Victoria from this morning and back on Sunday night. Would you be abel to provide me with an idea of your display and something small to put into print about TT for the program by Sunday night Monday? My detials are below. Where are you located? I look forward to hearing from you soon. Cheers Penny On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 9:58 PM, ray buckley wrote: > Awareness is good. > > Close to Canberra > I am keen. > > Ray > > On 19/02/2009, Geoffrey Grigg wrote: > > Friends, > > > > Penny Cilento from Murrumbateman has invited Transition Towns to appear > with > > the Earthworx tent at the National Folk Festival > > * > > See letter below and attachment.* > > > > Would someone like to co-ordinate this ? I have to focus on Sustain > Magazine > > so cannot get too deep. > > > > Geoffrey > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > From: Penny Cilento > > Date: 2009/2/19 > > Subject: National Folk Festival > > To: transitiontown-owner at austcom.org.au > > > > > > Hi Geoffery, > > My name isPenny Cilento and this year I am organising the Earthworx tent > for > > the 2009 festival. I was wondering if you could have a look at the > letter > > attached and let me know if you -transition town- would be intersted in > > having a disply/presence at the festival? I llok forward to hearing from > > you soon and thanks for all the wonderful work everyone does within the > > tranistion town network. It is very exciting. > > > > Kind regards > > > > -- > > Penny Cilento > > 33 Rose Street Murrumbateman > > NSW 2582 > > +61-(0)2 6227 0491 > > Mob:+61(0)407 066 932 > > "One must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a > dancing > > star." -- Nietzsche > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Geoffrey Grigg, > > 02-6492 5000 > > 0447 273 342 > > Project Coordinator, Community Network > > http://australiancommunities.org.au > > Editor, Sustain Magazine > > http://sustain.org.au > > > > Austcom - Building Sustainable Communities > > > > The Australian Community Network > > australiancommunities.org.au is a shared network shaped by a real > community. > > It is a collection of groups who, by their presence, have crafted a > > working array of tools such as web pages, on line database applications, > > events notices, news systems, public access areas, email mailing lists > and > > more. Our core precept is that we help build social, economic and > > environmentally sustainable communities. > > > -- Penny Cilento 33 Rose Street Murrumbateman NSW 2582 +61-(0)2 6227 0491 Mob:+61(0)407 066 932 "One must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star." -- Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090220/ed44f5a6/attachment.htm From geoffrey at austcom.org.au Fri Feb 20 15:46:55 2009 From: geoffrey at austcom.org.au (Geoffrey Grigg) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 15:46:55 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] Seedsavers Video about Seed Swap Day Message-ID: <499E35BF.1060506@austcom.org.au> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090220/93ec58e5/attachment-0001.htm From wells.carolyn at gmail.com Fri Feb 20 20:38:03 2009 From: wells.carolyn at gmail.com (Carolyn Wells) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 20:38:03 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] Seedsavers Video about Seed Swap Day In-Reply-To: <499E35BF.1060506@austcom.org.au> References: <499E35BF.1060506@austcom.org.au> Message-ID: Thank you Transition TV, great editing, and I'd not previously understood the relevance of the J curve. Well done. Carolyn On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 3:46 PM, Geoffrey Grigg wrote: > Hi > > Some local video channel work > > Transition TV > > http://thebegavalley.org.au/seedswapday.html > > > -- > > *Geoffrey Grigg,* > Project Co-ordinator-Austcom-The Australian Community Network > Editor-Sustain Magazine > geoffrey at austcom.org.au > Austcom-The Australian Community Network > *Ph: 02 6492 5000* > Mob: 0447 273 342 > 'The Central', Gipps St, > Bega NSW 2550 > > _______________________________________________ > tttplus mailing list > tttplus at austcom.org.au > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090220/2a187821/attachment.htm From rainbird at skymesh.com.au Fri Feb 20 20:41:47 2009 From: rainbird at skymesh.com.au (Jo Lewis) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 20:41:47 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] Fwd: Joint Submission on RET Legislation by 58 Climate Action Groups References: Message-ID: The submission on the draft RET Amendment Bill was signed by 58 groups with a total of over 13,000 members, thought that you might all like to know. Jo Jo Lewis rainbird at skymesh.com.au 0412 234 521 02 4473 7927 Begin forwarded message: > From: Eternal Source - Tracey Tipping > Date: 20 February 2009 5:18:16 PM > To: Tracey Tipping > Subject: FW: Joint Submission on RET Legislation by 58 Climate > Action Groups > > Dear all > > Please find attached the submission that we lodged on behalf of > everyone this afternoon ? we had 58 groups sign-on representing > well over 13,000 members, mindbogglingly amazing!!!! > > A special thanks to everyone for their input and if you could also > please thank your groups for turning this submission around so > quickly that would be awesome :) > > Hope you have a great weekend. > > Best regards! > Tracey > > Tracey Tipping > Policy Drafting Team, Australia?s Climate Action Summit, > www.climatesummit.org.au > Climate Action Pittwater > Director, Eternal Source www.eternalsource.com.au > > Ph: 0411 861 269 > > P Save a tree...please don?t print this email unless you really > need to - EVERY EFFORT MAKES AN AMAZING DIFFERENCE!! > > > > ------ Forwarded Message > From: Eternal Source - Tracey Tipping > Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 16:46:27 +1100 > To: > Conversation: Joint Submission on RET Legislation by 58 Climate > Action Groups > Subject: Joint Submission on RET Legislation by 58 Climate Action > Groups > > Dear Renewable Electricity Markets Team > > Please find attached a Joint Submission prepared by 58 Climate > Action Groups from across the ACT, New South Wales, Queensland, > Tasmania and Victoria. These 58 groups have a combined membership > of well over 13,000 people. > > We thank you for taking the time to read our submission on this > extremely important issue. > > I am the contact officer for this submission, so please don?t > hesitate to contact me if you have any questions at all. > > Thanks and best regards! > Tracey > > Tracey Tipping > Climate Action Pittwater > Policy Drafting Team, Australia?s Climate Action Summit, > www.climatesummit.org.au > Director, Eternal Source www.eternalsource.com.au > > Ph: 0411 861 269 > > P Save a tree...please don?t print this email unless you really > need to - EVERY EFFORT MAKES AN AMAZING DIFFERENCE!! > > > ------ End of Forwarded Message ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090220/138a1960/attachment-0002.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 09-02-20 Submission on RET - Final.doc Type: application/msword Size: 117760 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090220/138a1960/attachment-0001.doc -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090220/138a1960/attachment-0003.htm From rossiebarr at hotmail.com Fri Feb 20 21:58:46 2009 From: rossiebarr at hotmail.com (Roslyn Barr) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 21:58:46 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] Narooma Public asking for assistance Message-ID: Hi all I have had a call from Tashe Long from Narooma Public School (contact came thru our Rotary talk). Tashe is the 'Schools as Community Centres' Coordinator and is arranging a Healthy Family Expo day on 12 March at the school starting at 1.15 to 2.40. The school has 400 kids and 60 parents and she is not sure how it will work just yet. Her request is for us to have something on alternate energy and the TT concept. I think a handout is probably going to be what is required plus some hands-on people to share the word. I have told her that CEFE is the go for the energy aspect and that I will arrange for someone to be contacted and be present on the day. So Jo could you please arrange. Her hope is to do some selling on recycling so I think if we could work on that as well that would be good and the prototype for this day could then be used for Bermi and Tilba fair. I am going to ask her if we can use their copier and supplies rather than us having to pay for it. Will let you know how we go on that one. David how are you going on the plans for Tilba? Do you think we need to get together to discuss what we are going to do here. Carolyn is the material done and being used for Cobargo going to be suitable for primary kids? regards Ros _________________________________________________________________ It's simple! Sell your car for just $50 http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworldwide%2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801459%2Fpi%5F1004813%2Fai%5F859641&_t=762955845&_r=tig_OCT07&_m=EXT -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090220/39e85a83/attachment.htm From geoffreygrigg at thebegavalley.org.au Fri Feb 20 22:46:38 2009 From: geoffreygrigg at thebegavalley.org.au (Geoffrey Grigg) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 22:46:38 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] Narooma Public asking for assistance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: SCPA will have some brochures printed about it's activities and seedsavers and loomgrowers have some brochures - so that helps with some more social connections. I have copied this to the ttbega list and will forward to transition list in a week Geoffrey 2009/2/20 Roslyn Barr > > > Hi all I have had a call from Tashe Long from Narooma Public School > (contact came thru our Rotary talk). Tashe is the 'Schools as Community > Centres' Coordinator and is arranging a Healthy Family Expo day on 12 March > at the school starting at 1.15 to 2.40. The school has 400 kids and 60 > parents and she is not sure how it will work just yet. Her request is for us > to have something on alternate energy and the TT concept. I think a handout > is probably going to be what is required plus some hands-on people to share > the word. I have told her that CEFE is the go for the energy aspect and that > I will arrange for someone to be contacted and be present on the day. So Jo > could you please arrange. Her hope is to do some selling on recycling so I > think if we could work on that as well that would be good and the prototype > for this day could then be used for Bermi and Tilba fair. I am going to ask > her if we can use their copier and supplies rather than us having to pay for > it. Will let you know how we go on that one. David how are you going on the > plans for Tilba? Do you think we need to get together to discuss what we are > going to do here. > > > > Carolyn is the material done and being used for Cobargo going to be > suitable for primary kids? > > regards Ros > > > > ------------------------------ > Sell your car for just $50. It's simple! > > > _______________________________________________ > tttplus mailing list > tttplus at austcom.org.au > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus > > -- Geoffrey Grigg, 02-6492 5000 0447 273 342 Client Manager, Austcom - The Australian Community Network http://austcom.org.au Editor, Sustain Magazine http://sustain.org.au Building Sustainable Communities Austcom - The Australian Community Network http://austcom.org.au is a shared network shaped by a real community. It is a collection of groups who, by their presence, have crafted a working array of tools such as web pages, on line database applications, events notices, news systems, public access areas, email mailing lists and more. Our core precept is that we help build social, economic and environmentally sustainable communities. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090220/edf837e7/attachment.htm From mountainvalleyvegies at gmail.com Mon Feb 23 22:03:01 2009 From: mountainvalleyvegies at gmail.com (ray buckley) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 22:03:01 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] [ttbega] Narooma Public asking for assistance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi I have seen some great you tube segments that the kids will love plus there is the Mumbulla Zero waste film which worked well at the day we had with the elders and the kids at Cobargo CWA hall last year. I can possibly help on the day but cannot commit just yet. I will source the names of the you tube sites and pass them on hopefully before this weekend. Ray On 20/02/2009, Geoffrey Grigg wrote: > SCPA will have some brochures printed about it's activities and seedsavers > and loomgrowers have some brochures - so that helps with some more social > connections. > > I have copied this to the ttbega list and will forward to transition list in > a week > > Geoffrey > > > > > 2009/2/20 Roslyn Barr > >> >> >> Hi all I have had a call from Tashe Long from Narooma Public School >> (contact came thru our Rotary talk). Tashe is the 'Schools as Community >> Centres' Coordinator and is arranging a Healthy Family Expo day on 12 >> March >> at the school starting at 1.15 to 2.40. The school has 400 kids and 60 >> parents and she is not sure how it will work just yet. Her request is for >> us >> to have something on alternate energy and the TT concept. I think a >> handout >> is probably going to be what is required plus some hands-on people to >> share >> the word. I have told her that CEFE is the go for the energy aspect and >> that >> I will arrange for someone to be contacted and be present on the day. So >> Jo >> could you please arrange. Her hope is to do some selling on recycling so I >> think if we could work on that as well that would be good and the >> prototype >> for this day could then be used for Bermi and Tilba fair. I am going to >> ask >> her if we can use their copier and supplies rather than us having to pay >> for >> it. Will let you know how we go on that one. David how are you going on >> the >> plans for Tilba? Do you think we need to get together to discuss what we >> are >> going to do here. >> >> >> >> Carolyn is the material done and being used for Cobargo going to be >> suitable for primary kids? >> >> regards Ros >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> Sell your car for just $50. It's simple! >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> tttplus mailing list >> tttplus at austcom.org.au >> http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus >> >> > > > -- > Geoffrey Grigg, > 02-6492 5000 > 0447 273 342 > Client Manager, > Austcom - The Australian Community Network > http://austcom.org.au > Editor, Sustain Magazine > http://sustain.org.au > > Building Sustainable Communities > > > Austcom - The Australian Community Network > http://austcom.org.au is a shared network shaped by a real community. It is > a collection of groups who, by their presence, have crafted a working array > of tools such as web pages, on line database applications, events notices, > news systems, public access areas, email mailing lists and more. Our core > precept is that we help build social, economic and environmentally > sustainable communities. > From wells.carolyn at gmail.com Tue Feb 24 13:11:05 2009 From: wells.carolyn at gmail.com (Carolyn Wells) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 13:11:05 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] [ttbega] Narooma Public asking for assistance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ray's suggestion sounds good to me. The existing posters are not suitable, and I've tried but failed to imagine an engaging but easy to manage activity for 400 primary students on alternative energy. Carolyn On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 10:03 PM, ray buckley < mountainvalleyvegies at gmail.com> wrote: > Hi > > I have seen some great you tube segments that the kids will love plus > there is the Mumbulla Zero waste film which worked well at the day we > had with the elders and the kids at Cobargo CWA hall last year. > > I can possibly help on the day but cannot commit just yet. > I will source the names of the you tube sites and pass them on > hopefully before this weekend. > > Ray > > On 20/02/2009, Geoffrey Grigg wrote: > > SCPA will have some brochures printed about it's activities and > seedsavers > > and loomgrowers have some brochures - so that helps with some more social > > connections. > > > > I have copied this to the ttbega list and will forward to transition list > in > > a week > > > > Geoffrey > > > > > > > > > > 2009/2/20 Roslyn Barr > > > >> > >> > >> Hi all I have had a call from Tashe Long from Narooma Public School > >> (contact came thru our Rotary talk). Tashe is the 'Schools as Community > >> Centres' Coordinator and is arranging a Healthy Family Expo day on 12 > >> March > >> at the school starting at 1.15 to 2.40. The school has 400 kids and 60 > >> parents and she is not sure how it will work just yet. Her request is > for > >> us > >> to have something on alternate energy and the TT concept. I think a > >> handout > >> is probably going to be what is required plus some hands-on people to > >> share > >> the word. I have told her that CEFE is the go for the energy aspect and > >> that > >> I will arrange for someone to be contacted and be present on the day. So > >> Jo > >> could you please arrange. Her hope is to do some selling on recycling so > I > >> think if we could work on that as well that would be good and the > >> prototype > >> for this day could then be used for Bermi and Tilba fair. I am going to > >> ask > >> her if we can use their copier and supplies rather than us having to pay > >> for > >> it. Will let you know how we go on that one. David how are you going on > >> the > >> plans for Tilba? Do you think we need to get together to discuss what we > >> are > >> going to do here. > >> > >> > >> > >> Carolyn is the material done and being used for Cobargo going to be > >> suitable for primary kids? > >> > >> regards Ros > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> Sell your car for just $50. It's simple! > >> < > http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworldwide%2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801459%2Fpi%5F1004813%2Fai%5F859641&_t=762955845&_r=tig_OCT07&_m=EXT > > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> tttplus mailing list > >> tttplus at austcom.org.au > >> http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > Geoffrey Grigg, > > 02-6492 5000 > > 0447 273 342 > > Client Manager, > > Austcom - The Australian Community Network > > http://austcom.org.au > > Editor, Sustain Magazine > > http://sustain.org.au > > > > Building Sustainable Communities > > > > > > Austcom - The Australian Community Network > > http://austcom.org.au is a shared network shaped by a real community. > It is > > a collection of groups who, by their presence, have crafted a working > array > > of tools such as web pages, on line database applications, events > notices, > > news systems, public access areas, email mailing lists and more. Our > core > > precept is that we help build social, economic and environmentally > > sustainable communities. > > > _______________________________________________ > tttplus mailing list > tttplus at austcom.org.au > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090224/9dc488b8/attachment.htm From rainbird at skymesh.com.au Tue Feb 24 19:26:24 2009 From: rainbird at skymesh.com.au (Jo Lewis) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 19:26:24 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] Letter to Penny Wong Message-ID: <5B2D3D08-1C7B-43E2-BB1F-8A8CB1E04E3F@skymesh.com.au> I have been a bit tied up and missed this letter at first. It is a response to Penny Wong's comments by the CAGs who signed the submission on renewable electricals. Having only had time to read it briefly I thought I would hand it straight on to the group. The reports from the climate scientists are getting worse and worse so we really need to drive change in any way we can. The pdf outlines commitments made overseas and the .doc file is the joint letter to Wong. The letter has been written by Tracey Tipping (who wrote the last submission) with input from Richard Dennis (Australia Institute) ? ? Jo Lewis rainbird at skymesh.com.au 0412 234 521 02 4473 7927 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090224/042f6a53/attachment-0003.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 09-02-25 Joint Letter to Minister Wong.doc Type: application/octet-stream Size: 90112 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090224/042f6a53/attachment-0001.obj -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090224/042f6a53/attachment-0004.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 009-what-the-rest-of-the-world-is-doing-on-climate-change.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 171952 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090224/042f6a53/attachment-0001.pdf -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090224/042f6a53/attachment-0005.htm From rossiebarr at hotmail.com Tue Feb 24 21:27:40 2009 From: rossiebarr at hotmail.com (Roslyn Barr) Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 21:27:40 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] Narooma Public asking for assistance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Geoffrey I am going to Bega tomorrow (Wednesday) and wondering if I could pick up the info while I am there. If I can pick up please give me a call on 0408 632 192 to let me know where etc. Won't be on the road and therefore in mobile range til 9.15. thanks Ros Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 22:46:38 +1100 From: geoffreygrigg at thebegavalley.org.au To: tttplus at austcom.org.au CC: ttbega at austcom.org.au Subject: Re: [tttplus] Narooma Public asking for assistance SCPA will have some brochures printed about it's activities and seedsavers and loomgrowers have some brochures - so that helps with some more social connections. I have copied this to the ttbega list and will forward to transition list in a week Geoffrey 2009/2/20 Roslyn Barr Hi all I have had a call from Tashe Long from Narooma Public School (contact came thru our Rotary talk). Tashe is the 'Schools as Community Centres' Coordinator and is arranging a Healthy Family Expo day on 12 March at the school starting at 1.15 to 2.40. The school has 400 kids and 60 parents and she is not sure how it will work just yet. Her request is for us to have something on alternate energy and the TT concept. I think a handout is probably going to be what is required plus some hands-on people to share the word. I have told her that CEFE is the go for the energy aspect and that I will arrange for someone to be contacted and be present on the day. So Jo could you please arrange. Her hope is to do some selling on recycling so I think if we could work on that as well that would be good and the prototype for this day could then be used for Bermi and Tilba fair. I am going to ask her if we can use their copier and supplies rather than us having to pay for it. Will let you know how we go on that one. David how are you going on the plans for Tilba? Do you think we need to get together to discuss what we are going to do here. Carolyn is the material done and being used for Cobargo going to be suitable for primary kids? regards Ros Sell your car for just $50. It's simple! _______________________________________________ tttplus mailing list tttplus at austcom.org.au http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus -- Geoffrey Grigg, 02-6492 5000 0447 273 342 Client Manager, Austcom - The Australian Community Network http://austcom.org.au Editor, Sustain Magazine http://sustain.org.au Building Sustainable Communities Austcom - The Australian Community Network http://austcom.org.au is a shared network shaped by a real community. It is a collection of groups who, by their presence, have crafted a working array of tools such as web pages, on line database applications, events notices, news systems, public access areas, email mailing lists and more. Our core precept is that we help build social, economic and environmentally sustainable communities. _________________________________________________________________ Need a new place to rent, share or buy? Let ninemsn property help http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fninemsn%2Edomain%2Ecom%2Eau%2F%3Fs%5Fcid%3DFDMedia%3ANineMSN%5FHotmail%5FTagline&_t=774152450&_r=Domain_tagline&_m=EXT -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090224/16fa0d29/attachment.htm From geoffreygrigg at thebegavalley.org.au Wed Feb 25 11:14:52 2009 From: geoffreygrigg at thebegavalley.org.au (Geoffrey Grigg) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 11:14:52 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] Narooma Public asking for assistance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ros, Thanks for your time on the phone. I will attend the Narooma Public event and be there at 11am with our stall for TT and the other groups we represent. As I suggested we are able to generate a colour brochure for Transition Towns for the whole region with basic information and contact details for the groups - I suggest printing about 2,000 - we have a graphic artist who can assist with that. If we could get the text from the TTTPLus brochure which we saw at Cobargo Folk Festival - then we can use the text from that and send it around for comment - it was so good. We do NOT work with publisher format so it would need to be plain text or Word doc to access the content. After John Barlow, Ray Buckley, Derek Povel and Leah Wilkinson have returned from the TT training in Bowral and down south delivered by the UK TT people - there are some great new ideas to help promote TT we can all use - projects - training resources - so much to share.... Some of that could be incorporated into the brochure as well to build on what TTTPlus created. Thanks Geoffrey 2009/2/24 Roslyn Barr > Hi Geoffrey I am going to Bega tomorrow (Wednesday) and wondering if I > could pick up the info while I am there. If I can pick up please give me a > call on 0408 632 192 to let me know where etc. Won't be on the road and > therefore in mobile range til 9.15. > thanks > Ros > > ------------------------------ > Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 22:46:38 +1100 > From: geoffreygrigg at thebegavalley.org.au > To: tttplus at austcom.org.au > CC: ttbega at austcom.org.au > Subject: Re: [tttplus] Narooma Public asking for assistance > > SCPA will have some brochures printed about it's activities and seedsavers > and loomgrowers have some brochures - so that helps with some more social > connections. > > I have copied this to the ttbega list and will forward to transition list > in a week > > Geoffrey > > > > > 2009/2/20 Roslyn Barr > > > > Hi all I have had a call from Tashe Long from Narooma Public School > (contact came thru our Rotary talk). Tashe is the 'Schools as Community > Centres' Coordinator and is arranging a Healthy Family Expo day on 12 March > at the school starting at 1.15 to 2.40. The school has 400 kids and 60 > parents and she is not sure how it will work just yet. Her request is for us > to have something on alternate energy and the TT concept. I think a handout > is probably going to be what is required plus some hands-on people to share > the word. I have told her that CEFE is the go for the energy aspect and that > I will arrange for someone to be contacted and be present on the day. So Jo > could you please arrange. Her hope is to do some selling on recycling so I > think if we could work on that as well that would be good and the prototype > for this day could then be used for Bermi and Tilba fair. I am going to ask > her if we can use their copier and supplies rather than us having to pay for > it. Will let you know how we go on that one. David how are you going on the > plans for Tilba? Do you think we need to get together to discuss what we are > going to do here. > > > > Carolyn is the material done and being used for Cobargo going to be > suitable for primary kids? > > regards Ros > > > > ------------------------------ > Sell your car for just $50. It's simple! > > > _______________________________________________ > tttplus mailing list > tttplus at austcom.org.au > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus > > > > > -- > Geoffrey Grigg, > 02-6492 5000 > 0447 273 342 > Client Manager, > Austcom - The Australian Community Network > http://austcom.org.au > Editor, Sustain Magazine > http://sustain.org.au > > Building Sustainable Communities > > > Austcom - The Australian Community Network > http://austcom.org.au is a shared network shaped by a real community. It > is a collection of groups who, by their presence, have crafted a working > array of tools such as web pages, on line database applications, events > notices, news systems, public access areas, email mailing lists and more. > Our core precept is that we help build social, economic and environmentally > sustainable communities. > > > ------------------------------ > Let ninemsn property help! Need a new place to rent, share or buy? > > _______________________________________________ > tttplus mailing list > tttplus at austcom.org.au > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus > > -- Geoffrey Grigg, 02-6492 5000 0447 273 342 Client Manager, Austcom - The Australian Community Network http://austcom.org.au Editor, Sustain Magazine http://sustain.org.au Building Sustainable Communities Austcom - The Australian Community Network http://austcom.org.au is a shared network shaped by a real community. It is a collection of groups who, by their presence, have crafted a working array of tools such as web pages, on line database applications, events notices, news systems, public access areas, email mailing lists and more. Our core precept is that we help build social, economic and environmentally sustainable communities. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090225/11e9ce1f/attachment.htm From wells.carolyn at gmail.com Wed Feb 25 11:40:45 2009 From: wells.carolyn at gmail.com (Carolyn Wells) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 11:40:45 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] Narooma Public asking for assistance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Geoffrey I've attached the TTT+ brochure. It is in Word. I'm sure a graphic artist could improve it (they will find my use of the columns very rough). I'm looking forward to hearing from those who attended the training. Carolyn On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Geoffrey Grigg < geoffreygrigg at thebegavalley.org.au> wrote: > Ros, > > Thanks for your time on the phone. > > I will attend the Narooma Public event and be there at 11am with our stall > for TT and the other groups we represent. > > As I suggested we are able to generate a colour brochure for Transition > Towns for the whole region with basic information and contact details for > the groups - I suggest printing about 2,000 - we have a graphic artist who > can assist with that. > > If we could get the text from the TTTPLus brochure which we saw at Cobargo > Folk Festival - then we can use the text from that and send it around for > comment - it was so good. > > We do NOT work with publisher format so it would need to be plain text or > Word doc to access the content. > > After John Barlow, Ray Buckley, Derek Povel and Leah Wilkinson have > returned from the TT training in Bowral and down south delivered by the UK > TT people - there are some great new ideas to help promote TT we can all use > - projects - training resources - so much to share.... > > Some of that could be incorporated into the brochure as well to build on > what TTTPlus created. > > Thanks > > Geoffrey > > > 2009/2/24 Roslyn Barr > > Hi Geoffrey I am going to Bega tomorrow (Wednesday) and wondering if I >> could pick up the info while I am there. If I can pick up please give me a >> call on 0408 632 192 to let me know where etc. Won't be on the road and >> therefore in mobile range til 9.15. >> thanks >> Ros >> >> ------------------------------ >> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 22:46:38 +1100 >> From: geoffreygrigg at thebegavalley.org.au >> To: tttplus at austcom.org.au >> CC: ttbega at austcom.org.au >> Subject: Re: [tttplus] Narooma Public asking for assistance >> >> SCPA will have some brochures printed about it's activities and seedsavers >> and loomgrowers have some brochures - so that helps with some more social >> connections. >> >> I have copied this to the ttbega list and will forward to transition list >> in a week >> >> Geoffrey >> >> >> >> >> 2009/2/20 Roslyn Barr >> >> >> >> Hi all I have had a call from Tashe Long from Narooma Public School >> (contact came thru our Rotary talk). Tashe is the 'Schools as Community >> Centres' Coordinator and is arranging a Healthy Family Expo day on 12 March >> at the school starting at 1.15 to 2.40. The school has 400 kids and 60 >> parents and she is not sure how it will work just yet. Her request is for us >> to have something on alternate energy and the TT concept. I think a handout >> is probably going to be what is required plus some hands-on people to share >> the word. I have told her that CEFE is the go for the energy aspect and that >> I will arrange for someone to be contacted and be present on the day. So Jo >> could you please arrange. Her hope is to do some selling on recycling so I >> think if we could work on that as well that would be good and the prototype >> for this day could then be used for Bermi and Tilba fair. I am going to ask >> her if we can use their copier and supplies rather than us having to pay for >> it. Will let you know how we go on that one. David how are you going on the >> plans for Tilba? Do you think we need to get together to discuss what we are >> going to do here. >> >> >> >> Carolyn is the material done and being used for Cobargo going to be >> suitable for primary kids? >> >> regards Ros >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> Sell your car for just $50. It's simple! >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> tttplus mailing list >> tttplus at austcom.org.au >> http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Geoffrey Grigg, >> 02-6492 5000 >> 0447 273 342 >> Client Manager, >> Austcom - The Australian Community Network >> http://austcom.org.au >> Editor, Sustain Magazine >> http://sustain.org.au >> >> Building Sustainable Communities >> >> >> Austcom - The Australian Community Network >> http://austcom.org.au is a shared network shaped by a real community. It >> is a collection of groups who, by their presence, have crafted a working >> array of tools such as web pages, on line database applications, events >> notices, news systems, public access areas, email mailing lists and more. >> Our core precept is that we help build social, economic and environmentally >> sustainable communities. >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> Let ninemsn property help! Need a new place to rent, share or buy? >> >> _______________________________________________ >> tttplus mailing list >> tttplus at austcom.org.au >> http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus >> >> > > > -- > Geoffrey Grigg, > 02-6492 5000 > 0447 273 342 > Client Manager, > Austcom - The Australian Community Network > http://austcom.org.au > Editor, Sustain Magazine > http://sustain.org.au > > Building Sustainable Communities > > > Austcom - The Australian Community Network > http://austcom.org.au is a shared network shaped by a real community. It > is a collection of groups who, by their presence, have crafted a working > array of tools such as web pages, on line database applications, events > notices, news systems, public access areas, email mailing lists and more. > Our core precept is that we help build social, economic and environmentally > sustainable communities. > > > _______________________________________________ > tttplus mailing list > tttplus at austcom.org.au > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090225/291338a3/attachment-0001.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: TT brochure xx.doc Type: application/msword Size: 142336 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090225/291338a3/attachment-0001.doc From geoffreygrigg at thebegavalley.org.au Thu Feb 26 16:56:49 2009 From: geoffreygrigg at thebegavalley.org.au (Geoffrey Grigg) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 16:56:49 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] Fwd: Training for Transition workshop - 4th & 5th April In-Reply-To: <4953E7E0-51A7-4365-86C7-CAA5A63BD035@bigpond.net.au> References: <4953E7E0-51A7-4365-86C7-CAA5A63BD035@bigpond.net.au> Message-ID: FYI ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Sandra Menteith Date: 2009/2/26 Subject: Training for Transition workshop - 4th & 5th April To: Sandra Menteith Attached is the flyer for the upcoming 'Training for Transition' workshop to be held in Bowral (NSW) on 4th and 5th April. Many of you have asked to be told of this workshop, and others I thought may know people who are interested. The program is inspiring and comprehensive in looking at the context for the 'great turning' that we are called to make, the inner shift as well as the outer transition in our lives, and will provide the tools needed to move together in building more sustainable and resilient communities in these challenging times. Please feel free to circulate in your networks.For more information and to register your interest for the workshop please contact me. Kind regards Sandra Sandra Menteith 0403 790777 menteith at bigpond.net.au Transition Shire Wingecarribee CANWin www.canwin.org.au More information on the Transition initiative can be found at www.transitiontowns.org. -- Geoffrey Grigg, 02-6492 5000 0447 273 342 Client Manager, Austcom - The Australian Community Network http://austcom.org.au Editor, Sustain Magazine http://sustain.org.au Building Sustainable Communities Austcom - The Australian Community Network http://austcom.org.au is a shared network shaped by a real community. It is a collection of groups who, by their presence, have crafted a working array of tools such as web pages, on line database applications, events notices, news systems, public access areas, email mailing lists and more. Our core precept is that we help build social, economic and environmentally sustainable communities. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090226/eba822d1/attachment-0001.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: T4T Bowral flyer.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 783113 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090226/eba822d1/attachment-0001.pdf From rainbird at skymesh.com.au Fri Feb 27 23:40:32 2009 From: rainbird at skymesh.com.au (Jo Lewis) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 23:40:32 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] Letter to Penny Wong Message-ID: Does anyone in the group object to us endorsing this letter? ? Jo Lewis rainbird at skymesh.com.au 0412 234 521 02 4473 7927 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090227/3bc08507/attachment-0002.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Joint Letter to Minister Wong - 2 Mar 09.doc Type: application/octet-stream Size: 100864 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090227/3bc08507/attachment-0001.obj -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090227/3bc08507/attachment-0003.htm From peteranne at bordernet.com.au Sat Feb 28 08:10:12 2009 From: peteranne at bordernet.com.au (Peter and Anne) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:10:12 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] Letter to Penny Wong References: Message-ID: <28A49393FA6C42E1BDECCA7F947E3433@jrq.local> No Peter Doolan ----- Original Message ----- From: Jo Lewis To: tttplus List Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 11:40 PM Subject: [tttplus] Letter to Penny Wong Does anyone in the group object to us endorsing this letter?? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jo Lewis rainbird at skymesh.com.au 0412 234 521 02 4473 7927 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Does anyone in the group object to us endorsing this letter? ? Jo Lewis rainbird at skymesh.com.au 0412 234 521 02 4473 7927 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ tttplus mailing list tttplus at austcom.org.au http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090228/5eaeffc5/attachment.htm From peteranne at bordernet.com.au Sat Feb 28 08:13:20 2009 From: peteranne at bordernet.com.au (Peter and Anne) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:13:20 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] Letter to Penny Wong References: Message-ID: <747549E6358C47A0AD82B9F5479907A8@jrq.local> No Anne Wilson ----- Original Message ----- From: Jo Lewis To: tttplus List Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 11:40 PM Subject: [tttplus] Letter to Penny Wong Does anyone in the group object to us endorsing this letter?? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jo Lewis rainbird at skymesh.com.au 0412 234 521 02 4473 7927 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Does anyone in the group object to us endorsing this letter? ? Jo Lewis rainbird at skymesh.com.au 0412 234 521 02 4473 7927 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ tttplus mailing list tttplus at austcom.org.au http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090228/2ef962fd/attachment.htm From asmarshall11 at gmail.com Sat Feb 28 08:14:46 2009 From: asmarshall11 at gmail.com (Angela Marshall) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 08:14:46 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] Letter to Penny Wong In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3e597ad10902271314m348cdc23iaf6f215be25d3967@mail.gmail.com> Dear Jo, Can't open it - the file is labelled as Untyped Binary Data and no application seems to open it. Can you save it as a Word doc before resending please? Cheers Angela On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 11:40 PM, Jo Lewis wrote: > Does anyone in the group object to us endorsing this letter? > > > > Jo Lewis > rainbird at skymesh.com.au > 0412 234 521 > 02 4473 7927 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > tttplus mailing list > tttplus at austcom.org.au > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090228/8da7abb5/attachment.htm From karibara at bigpond.net.au Sat Feb 28 14:38:27 2009 From: karibara at bigpond.net.au (Dean / Stock) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 14:38:27 +1100 (AUS Eastern Daylight Time) Subject: [tttplus] Letter to Penny Wong References: Message-ID: <49A8B1B3.000001.04620@OPTIMA-24538292> Can't open file Margaret -------Original Message------- From: Jo Lewis Date: 27/02/2009 11:43:46 PM To: tttplus List Subject: [tttplus] Letter to Penny Wong Does anyone in the group object to us endorsing this letter? Jo Lewis rainbird at skymesh.com.au 0412 234 521 02 4473 7927 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090228/36e5d619/attachment.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 1458 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090228/36e5d619/attachment.jpeg From gary at spiritude.net Sat Feb 28 14:37:33 2009 From: gary at spiritude.net (Gary Hooley) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 14:37:33 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] Letter to Penny Wong In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1235792253.6870.2.camel@gary-laptop-UB2> Definitely happy to support the Long letter to Wong, who is obviously Wrong. Thanks Jo, Gary H. On Fri, 2009-02-27 at 23:40 +1100, Jo Lewis wrote: > Does anyone in the group object to us endorsing this letter? > > > > > > Jo Lewis > rainbird at skymesh.com.au > 0412 234 521 > 02 4473 7927 > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > tttplus mailing list > tttplus at austcom.org.au > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090228/f12af116/attachment.htm From rainbird at skymesh.com.au Sat Feb 28 15:56:09 2009 From: rainbird at skymesh.com.au (Jo Lewis) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 15:56:09 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] Letter to Penny Wong In-Reply-To: <49A8B1B3.000001.04620@OPTIMA-24538292> References: <49A8B1B3.000001.04620@OPTIMA-24538292> Message-ID: ? try this one On 28/02/2009, at 2:38 PM, Dean / Stock wrote: > Can't open file > > Margaret > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Jo Lewis > Date: 27/02/2009 11:43:46 PM > To: tttplus List > Subject: [tttplus] Letter to Penny Wong > > Does anyone in the group object to us endorsing this letter? > > > Jo Lewis > rainbird at skymesh.com.au > 0412 234 521 > 02 4473 7927 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > tttplus mailing list > tttplus at austcom.org.au > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090228/0236bc7f/attachment-0002.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Jointletter.doc Type: application/octet-stream Size: 83456 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090228/0236bc7f/attachment-0001.obj -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090228/0236bc7f/attachment-0003.htm From relax at greengables.com.au Sat Feb 28 16:08:02 2009 From: relax at greengables.com.au (Green Gables) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 16:08:02 +1100 (EST) Subject: [tttplus] Letter to Penny Wong In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <60732.58.170.18.143.1235797682.squirrel@webmail.ilisys.com.au> Go for it!!Stuart > Does anyone in the group object to us endorsing this letter? > ??? > > Jo Lewis > rainbird at skymesh.com.au > 0412 234 521 > 02 4473 7927 > > > > _______________________________________________ > tttplus mailing list > tttplus at austcom.org.au > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus > From unwind at tilba.com.au Sat Feb 28 17:10:11 2009 From: unwind at tilba.com.au (The Stay at Tintagel) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 17:10:11 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] Letter to Penny Wong In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001501c9996b$3a48f4e0$aedadea0$@com.au> Looks good. Peter SX From: tttplus-bounces at austcom.org.au [mailto:tttplus-bounces at austcom.org.au] On Behalf Of Jo Lewis Sent: Friday, 27 February 2009 11:41 PM To: tttplus List Subject: [tttplus] Letter to Penny Wong Does anyone in the group object to us endorsing this letter? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090228/3042cca9/attachment.htm From wells.carolyn at gmail.com Sat Feb 28 18:24:29 2009 From: wells.carolyn at gmail.com (Carolyn Wells) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 18:24:29 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] Letter to Penny Wong In-Reply-To: <001501c9996b$3a48f4e0$aedadea0$@com.au> References: <001501c9996b$3a48f4e0$aedadea0$@com.au> Message-ID: I'm in favour of endorsing it Carolyn On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 5:10 PM, The Stay at Tintagel wrote: > Looks good. > > Peter SX > > > > *From:* tttplus-bounces at austcom.org.au [mailto: > tttplus-bounces at austcom.org.au] *On Behalf Of *Jo Lewis > *Sent:* Friday, 27 February 2009 11:41 PM > *To:* tttplus List > *Subject:* [tttplus] Letter to Penny Wong > > > > Does anyone in the group object to us endorsing this letter? > > _______________________________________________ > tttplus mailing list > tttplus at austcom.org.au > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090228/ab8addac/attachment.htm From karibara at bigpond.net.au Sat Feb 28 19:57:40 2009 From: karibara at bigpond.net.au (Dean / Stock) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 19:57:40 +1100 (AUS Eastern Daylight Time) Subject: [tttplus] Letter to Penny Wong References: <49A8B1B3.000001.04620@OPTIMA-24538292> Message-ID: <49A8FC84.00000C.04620@OPTIMA-24538292> Thanks Jo. Go with it. M -------Original Message------- From: Jo Lewis Date: 28/02/2009 3:59:36 PM To: The Triangle Transition Towns Mailing List Subject: Re: [tttplus] Letter to Penny Wong try this one On 28/02/2009, at 2:38 PM, Dean / Stock wrote: Can't open file Margaret -------Original Message------- From: Jo Lewis Date: 27/02/2009 11:43:46 PM To: tttplus List Subject: [tttplus] Letter to Penny Wong Does anyone in the group object to us endorsing this letter? Jo Lewis rainbird at skymesh.com.au 0412 234 521 02 4473 7927 _______________________________________________ tttplus mailing list tttplus at austcom.org.au http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090228/f3ba0820/attachment.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 1458 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090228/f3ba0820/attachment.jpeg From dol62834 at bigpond.net.au Sat Feb 28 20:05:05 2009 From: dol62834 at bigpond.net.au (David Oliphant) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 20:05:05 +1100 Subject: [tttplus] Letter to Penny Wong In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7F646990-77B9-4783-A62F-1565FA0C8BB0@bigpond.net.au> not me On 27/02/2009, at 11:40 PM, Jo Lewis wrote: > Does anyone in the group object to us endorsing this letter? > > > > Jo Lewis > rainbird at skymesh.com.au > 0412 234 521 > 02 4473 7927 > > > > _______________________________________________ > tttplus mailing list > tttplus at austcom.org.au > http://lists.austcom.org.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tttplus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.austcom.org.au/pipermail/tttplus/attachments/20090228/7d77704a/attachment-0001.htm